Growing Together

Softening Stone (AKA Hardened Heart)

• Organic Church • Season 3 • Episode 45

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SPEAKER_01:

Oh, there it is.

SPEAKER_03:

There it is. We're back. It's been so long.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, I guess I can get right into this one. Um, this one was my topic.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's on your topic. You jump right on it.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. A few months ago, um, my coworker and I were talking about something, some situation going on with like not even her loved one. It was just someone that she knew for a while and she sees them going through hard times and she's like, Man, I've been praying for him, praying for him, and just you know, obviously she she knows that she's a pastor's wife, you know, so she she knows the ins and outs of faith, you know, and she's like, but it's like it it's just I think it might be her son's um friend, so like a high school friend or even an elementary school friend, and her son's in the late 30s, you know, now, but she still has him on Facebook and everything, and she's like, I just I don't know. Like, I just keep praying for and uh praying just for a turn on his heart, and but then again, like she's like, I don't know, but you know, at the end of the day, God God knows his heart, and God knows whether his heart will be hardened or will not be, and I'm like, hmm, could a heart be unhardened, you know? So that's kind of where this topic sparked on my on my end.

SPEAKER_00:

And well, what do you think? Can a heart be unhardened?

SPEAKER_03:

I don't know because there's certain verses, like like the first verse I found about it was Ecclesiastes um 6.10. Everything has already been decided. It was known long ago what it each person would be. So there's no use in arguing with God about your destiny. And then Romans 920, I believe, kind of like piggybacked off of it. Um just over there. Okay, 920. You will say to me, therefore, why then does he still find fault? For who resists his will? On the contrary, who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? Well, what is form say to to the one who formed it? Why did you make me like this? Or who has the potter no right over the clay to make from this same lump one piece of pottery for honor and another for dishonor? But as I was reading that, I'm like, yeah, but this person's kind of talking to God in a way about I don't know, when I think of someone's hardened heart, I think of someone who doesn't want to know the Lord. Um, and like I with the room with this one that I just was reading on, it's almost like it seems like he's actually he's at least considering God, you know what I mean, and his points of interest that he was just bringing up.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I think I think if if you if you do have a hardened heart and you listen to the word or you start reading the word, I believe the word will start softening your heart so that you can but allow the allow the Lord to to continue to work in you.

SPEAKER_03:

Do you think a hardened heart would ever go to the word? I I you know what I I I take that back because people have to try to prove that God wasn't real and then turns out.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, well, yeah, yeah. When he when when you when you try and prove that God's not real, you know, you have to start somewhere. So you have to you have to commit you have to come into the house. And when you come into the house, you're gonna hear the word. Right. And then if it's biblical, yeah. You know, and then your heart's, you know, you're you're you're gonna you're gonna the Lord's gonna put put that thought in your head, you're gonna start thinking. Yeah. And I think you're gonna say, well, maybe there's something to this. Yeah. And you know, and the Lord's he can he can soften your heart. Yeah. I know he can because he softened mine. Yep. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

That was that's what I was hoping you guys would answer with, but uh, you know. Read that the second verse you read again. You will say to me, therefore, why then does he still find fault? For who resists his will? On the contrary, who are you, a human being, to talk back to God? Well, what is form say to the one who formed it? Why did you make me like this? Or has the potter no right over the clay to make from the same lump one piece of pottery for honor and another for dishonor?

SPEAKER_00:

I have asked God before, why have you made it so hard on me to keep my faith? Yeah. And seemingly you make it so much easier for others. Why couldn't I be more like so-and-so? Why did I have to have all these challenges? Why if if you loved me so much and and I've tried as hard as I've tried, why have you made it so hard for me? Why why can't I have the road that they're on? Yes. Okay, so that right there can start a person to have a hardened heart. For sure. Because you're not focusing on the good God's will for you and your path. You're looking at everybody else's path and wishing you could have their road have their road. And so I think a lot uh maybe even Christians can do this to where you're like, you know, why me? You know, why am I on this rocky path that just every time I turn around, there's this other challenge, there's this other thing you're throwing at me. And this person over here, just like they just get to it, just seems all so easy for them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

So And I think I think people that have been Christians before start that thinking process just like you, just like I, because we've talked about that before. Like we're and sometimes they fall astray and then they they don't return. And I'm like, are you going to return? You know what I mean? Like, are you gonna come back? Because you're a loved one and I want you to come back, but why aren't you coming back?

SPEAKER_00:

But and it can go back to Cain and Abel.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, Cain thought that he was pleasing the Lord with all the things that he was doing, but he was more pleasing himself. Yeah. He wasn't giving the Lord what the Lord wanted from him. Yes, he was giving him all these great things that Cain thought would be great.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

Not and gets jealous of his brother Abel because you know, he's thinking, well, why is what he is giving you so great? Because seemingly to me, I'm giving you so much more. But it's because of the fact that Abel is giving God what God wants from Abel. Yeah. Where Cain is not doing that. Yes. So that's where the jealousy comes from. And so, of course, Cain gets a hard heart because he can't live up to his brother. Yeah. But he doesn't understand why. So that something like that can create a hard heart in somebody. Yeah. Because they don't understand their personal relationship with God. They don't understand their path, and they're more worried about what somebody else's gift is or what somebody else's path is. And they're not focused at all on their purpose in this world. Right. They're focused on everybody else's. So they're thinking, well, God's never done anything for me, even though, yeah, I might have prayed. I've been praying for, you know, five years for him to do this. He's never done it. So, and yet so-and-so over here, seems like everything they pray for, they get it.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

I went through that years when I first way before Jarvey and I got married, and I was going back to church, and um I had a friend, and we both smoked. And we wanted to quit smoking. So we prayed and prayed and prayed about it. She threw her cigarettes out on the way home from church, and I'm searching for my next one. You know, I can't get it to my mouth, and you're like, let me catch those. You know, and it was and then I then I was I gotta get back, I gotta go grab. I was angry. Sure. You know, I thought why? How did she get healed and missed in a way? You know, and and I was jealous over it.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I can see that because addiction, I mean, that's that's something to beat. I mean, it's hard. Like, yep. Yeah, my my parents, they quit smoking quit smoking together, and my dad was kind of the same way, just cold turkey, boom. But stepmom, hmm, no, struggled, you know.

SPEAKER_00:

Like, yeah, then resentment kicks in sometimes, you know. Because yeah, you're just like, why? You know, yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

And then it turned out like what, seven, eight years down the road, I ended up quitting because Jarby said, You'll never be able to quit. You watched me watch me. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yep, exactly.

SPEAKER_01:

He knew what words to say to trigger you.

SPEAKER_00:

Yep. So yeah, so I think I I think Roger made a perfect point. It's like, I know it can happen because he softened mine. I'm one of them. What more proof do you need? Yep. But um it is more, you know, because when you think of heart and heart, you're thinking physical. A lot of times you can just think physical. Yeah. Um but more often than not, you know, it as I think Roger's making the point, this comes at this comes out out of wisdom. It doesn't come out of anything um physical physically that you can do. Even if we talk about forgiveness, yeah, you can say, Yeah, I I forgive 'em. But have you really?

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

Have you forgiven them because you have the wisdom to? Mm-hmm. Or just because you say so. Right. So we can use any word in the English language that we want to.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

But if there's no wisdom behind it, you know, what's the point?

SPEAKER_02:

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00:

So you can say, Yeah, I've forgiven them. But is there anyone but is there any wisdom behind it?

SPEAKER_03:

Are you And the way you said it with the attitude? Because most of Yeah, that's attitude. Yeah, most of the time that's how people do say it. And you know, I I've let that go. I've forgiven them. It's whatever. Well, it doesn't seem like it.

SPEAKER_00:

That's still a hardened heart. Yes. Doesn't matter if you've forgiven them.

SPEAKER_03:

It's been so long ago. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

It is what it is. Bygones are bygones. You know, if I saw them on the street, I'd talk to them.

SPEAKER_03:

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, but is there any wisdom in it?

SPEAKER_03:

Have you really taken it to the word?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00:

And have you really uh, you know, have you sought that person out? Have you really tried to have understanding with that person? Mm-hmm. Um that's true forgiveness. Yeah. That's and that's true softening of the heart. Yes. As you're looking for the wisdom behind it, you're not just saying it so that people will recognize and let it go. Leave me alone. Yeah. You know, I I forgive them. I don't want to be bothered about it anymore.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Um that that's the difference.

SPEAKER_03:

It it's kind of crazy how, again, how these because we're doubling in on the topics, you know, and I'm like, man, you brought one for the tonight, and I brought one, and I'm like, the person that I'm thinking about, like, yeah, you know, he's gone through so many crises, and a lot of the times when people do go through crises, they do end up, you know, being led to or even being led to the Lord a lot of the times. And it's like, not for this one, you know, and I'm like, you know, it's just like, oh my goodness. But but I also like you, like you said last week, you know, how many people have lived in this world and like, yeah, it seems like you know, he might be in the minority of not turning to you know the Lord during those crises or whatever. Um, but there's probably a lot more that are like him throughout the past that they're just harder to crack. Not even harder to crack, just harder to get or be more creative to get to, I guess.

SPEAKER_00:

Yep. And you know, in myself personally, I feel I believe that I have such a soft heart that I can forgive anybody like really quick. Like, I know for a fact that I've had to forgive a lot of people for a lot of different things. Um and I'm still, and there's some people that I've forgiven that, you know, yeah, probably even I should be taking the extra step because in my heart, I truly know like I forgive that person. If I saw that person today, I would treat them just how I would the last time uh we were in a good relationship together. Um that comes, I guess it comes easy to me. And either that's a gift or something that I've learned from a young age because I grew up really fast and I and I and I've experienced a lot of things to know that you know that yes, everybody deserves forgiveness. Nobody's perfect. Yeah. Um so I believe like I have a I have a that's easy for me. But I realize that that's not easy for everybody. Right. You know, so I don't I don't like condemn somebody because you know, I I more often than not, I I I feel pity for people that have uh such a hard heart. Yeah. Because sometimes I can I can think to myself, you know, I've been able to forgive so many people for so many things. And I but I know there's people out there that can't forgive me.

SPEAKER_03:

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00:

That just that just won't even give it a thought.

SPEAKER_03:

And you want to have a hardened heart about that. Yeah. But you do you know better.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, but I know better.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So again, it's like, okay, I because then that's where my spiritual maturity has to be.

SPEAKER_02:

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00:

I under I understand why they have a hardened heart. So there's no expectation from me to say, I deserve to be forgiven. Like I don't understand why that person can't forgive me.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And and I'm not condemning them to that. I'm not thinking like, I'm not saying, well, God is going to condemn you because you won't forgive me.

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

No. No. I I have enough spiritual maturity to understand, like, yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

You also know where they're at in their head and where walk with the Lord if any. Yeah. You know?

SPEAKER_00:

And I, you know, and and I'm uh I know there's only the Lord is the only person I know that is going to give me true total forgiveness. You humans, you know, it's that's on a that's on a different level. Like I I never expect, I never have that expectation or or feel, you know, like that uh, you know, somebody's I'm waiting on that. Yeah. Like I deserve it. Like enough's enough. It's time you forgive me. It's like, no, God, God will deal with them in their own time. And a lot of times they think they have every right to feel the way that they do. So I don't have that expectation for human beings to I don't have the same expectation for human beings to show me the same kind of love and grace that the Lord does. Mm-hmm. I just don't.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And I'm a and I'm and I'm, I guess that's the way I look at it, I'm spiritually mature enough to look at it that way. Which also I think prevents a hardening of the heart.

SPEAKER_03:

Mm-hmm. I agree.

SPEAKER_00:

Because I'm never letting it get to that point. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

I agree.

SPEAKER_00:

I start feeling like I deserve somebody's forgiveness or I deserve somebody to show me respect or, you know, to to give me what I think I deserve.

SPEAKER_03:

Mm-hmm. Um I think what's scary about like lukewarm Christians is when they're being lukewarm, like in and a crisis does happen, then like their heart is hardened right away. But if like if they were fully in, yeah, then they would have that enough understanding.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. I can forgive somebody for not forgiving me.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I guess that's how you know, that's just but that's how I'm built.

SPEAKER_03:

Yep.

SPEAKER_00:

Like I said, either I've been able to draw that from the word from an early age. You know, I hope that's I hope that's the reason. I've I've just you know been able to do that.

SPEAKER_03:

But um I'm sure it is, because like where else does would that strength come from? Right, you know?

SPEAKER_00:

You know, but but that doesn't mean I don't have other struggles. It doesn't mean there isn't other things that are hard for me, which might be easier for the other person that I'm waiting on the forgiveness from, or you know. So sometimes, you know, interpersonal relationships, it's so easy for all of us to harden our heart towards somebody. Yeah. For anything, for any minor offense, or you know, just like uh they had something smart to say about how I dress today, or what I brought for lunch today, or uh, you know, just uh yeah, it's just so easy to do.

SPEAKER_05:

Um, but it's but many of them that have the hardened hearts don't even realize that they do.

SPEAKER_03:

That's what I'm saying. Yeah. And most of the time it's because they don't have a walk with the Lord. I mean, there are some times where yeah, they do have a walk with the Lord, but you're like, maybe that should be reevaluated or adjusted or something. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, did they really know Christ? Right.

SPEAKER_00:

Or But like Proverbs 28, 14 says, Blessed is the man who always fears the Lord, but he who hardens his heart falls into trouble.

SPEAKER_02:

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00:

So when you're talking about lukewarm Christians, I I don't know if you're lukewarm, I don't know if you truly fear the Lord. And when we say fear the Lord, I don't think it should mean that we're scared of the Lord. Right. That we're frightened of the Lord.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, and how we think of fear, I think it's more of respect. That's what I was gonna say. Respect that you your relationship with him, you understand him enough, you understand the word enough. Yes, that okay, before you go and harden your heart about something, you know, have counsel with the Lord and be like, is this really like something I should be closing my heart to? Is this something that should really I should be carrying around? You know, and making life heavier, it's a burden.

SPEAKER_03:

Picking picking it up every day. And yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Is this really worth making other vibes terrible?

SPEAKER_03:

Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Should I risk my relationship with this person because of this? Yeah. You know. All the, you know, all the love I have for this person, this family member, this friend, whatever they said, whatever they've done, is it is it worth closing my heart to them?

SPEAKER_03:

Uh yeah, because also, you know, we we know that we're ambassadors of Christ, and like if you do harden your heart, that's just gonna show. I'm not saying it'll show that you're being like a hypocrite or anything, but it'll maybe show some not so nice sides of you, and maybe they're going to think, hey, well, if this person's a Christian, I don't want to be labeled as that, and then not even fall into it. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00:

There's there could be some certain Well, you know, some people can look at the Ten Commandments and they will they can quote them all. And that's that's uh that's all they have in their tool belt. So they can't they can't they use it as a weapon. They they can use it as a weapon. Like they can't forgive they can't forgive outside of the Ten Commandments. Now is that I'm just gonna pose a question. Now, is that really what the Ten Commandments are for?

SPEAKER_03:

No. As a as a like um guideline or a not a guideline, what am I thinking? How to live life.

SPEAKER_01:

Uh yeah, uh an outline to life.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Whether you're a Christian or not or a non-Christian, it's still just it's an outline to life.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, is it is it your certificate to judge?

SPEAKER_03:

Right. Right, not at all. And I've had people judge me about just about something of the Ten Commandments, and you know, came here and was throwing stuff in the, you know, because I was on council at the time, throwing things into the driveway, saying that I you know, wasn't honoring and all the things. And it's like, yeah, you know, that shouldn't I don't know, that shouldn't be what the that yeah, because the way he's looking at it is black and white. If it's if you did this or this, or you know, then okay, but with my with my things going on, you know, I have a mentally unwell mother. I have to protect myself. I I don't know if I can honor a mother who's mentally unwell when she is manic and when she is, you know, threatening to harm others. And you know what I mean? Like there's so many things that it's not just black and white sometimes, you know?

SPEAKER_02:

Right.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Then that's where that's that's where sometimes that that forgiveness comes in too. Yes. You know, yep.

SPEAKER_00:

But even in it when it is black and white, it's been very black and white for me. Very much so. Um but again, is that you know does that give everybody this, you know. Authority to advance the boardwalk certif, you know, certificate to be like, yep, this is my certificate that nothing.

SPEAKER_03:

This is my pass to put on Nick saying, Nick, you're Nick, you're a terrible person because it says this.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, you must be this this must define you because Yep. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

No.

SPEAKER_00:

And anybody for that matter. Yeah. Um people cherry pick. The Ten Commandments are very, very, very important. Sure. Um They are there for a reason.

SPEAKER_03:

We should do a topic about this. And we should. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Um, you know, Moses goes up there and it's another one of those things while he's up there getting wisdom and discernment.

SPEAKER_01:

Whatever down there complaining. What are his people doing?

SPEAKER_00:

They're throwing parties and doing everything the exact opposite of what he's been trying to tell them to do.

SPEAKER_01:

But isn't that like a little isn't that like a child a child when the parents are when the parents are wet, they just go wild?

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, yeah. So I guess what do we I I suppose what do we need this for? Um I don't know how many pages yours has, but we'll just try it real quick. What do I need?

SPEAKER_03:

2,226 pages for?

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I got two thousand three hundred and thirty-five. What do I need two thousand three hundred and thirty-five pages for?

SPEAKER_03:

Of wisdom.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, those two slates.

SPEAKER_03:

Right. Yes. Yes. Is all that is all that actually matters.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And I don't say this out of and I'm not saying this out of anger or No. Again, because I'm trying to justify somebody showing me forgiveness. But it just all goes back to the hardening of the heart. That I don't think the Ten Commandments are not going to help you overcome that problem.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

If you've got a hardened heart and you read the Ten Commandments, I don't think you're not, you're not that's not going to help you. Your heart might get harder. It might. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

Or you're going to bend it and twist it to your way of thinking.

SPEAKER_00:

Um But again, it's and to me, it's like, yes, God, God Himself commanded that. You as a person did not.

SPEAKER_03:

Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So, you know, it is not for us to be the final judge of of anything. And so and often a lot of times, I think that people can take it's sad, but I think sometimes people can take God's word and use it as a weapon.

SPEAKER_02:

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00:

They're only focused on the harsh side of it. Part of it.

SPEAKER_03:

I agree. You know. Yeah. Yeah. Yep, I agree. Roger.

SPEAKER_05:

But he's counting pages. You're still counting pages over there?

SPEAKER_01:

I got I got a thousand pages in my Bible.

SPEAKER_03:

Do you? Yeah. Yours looks tiny. Like that's really little. I mean, it's a good thing you had that eye surgery.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_01:

It is. Believe me.

SPEAKER_05:

I have a large print, I still have to put my glasses on.

SPEAKER_01:

You got what?

SPEAKER_05:

Large print? I still have to put my glasses on.

SPEAKER_01:

I can almost read that from here. Not really.

SPEAKER_05:

What do you think causes people to have such a hardened heart that they have shut God out of their life? Emotions. Emotions.

SPEAKER_00:

I think people want to they want to have the control. They feel safer.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

If it's under their their emotional control.

SPEAKER_03:

They're calling they're calling all the shots.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

They're calling the shots. They're keeping things under control. They're controlling the relationship.

SPEAKER_03:

But even though they're calling the shots, they still blame God for whenever bad things happen. They say, Well, I mean, how could you let this happen?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. That's always their answer. Like, well, if God is real, then how could this happen?

SPEAKER_03:

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00:

But they're it's like because then you can be like, well, how do we even get to the point where we had to have it the Ten Commandments?

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

How did we get things so bad that it had to be spelled out in black and white?

unknown:

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Because we didn't believe what was being told to us. Yeah. I mean But sometimes being in black and white, though, either, still isn't the s isn't the truth. Yeah. You know. But when it comes from God, it is the truth. You know. So I don't know.

SPEAKER_00:

And as Christians, we have to stand for the truth. We have to speak the truth. That's the that's the one of the most important things that we have to do. And so sometimes it does come down to hard truths. But as we talked in the last episode, our goal isn't to say, okay, you have violated this, so we want to push you to the other end of the line. You know, when Jesus drew the line in the sand, he didn't say, okay, everybody step up to that line. If you can throw the rock far enough, you can hit her.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

No, that's not. Nope. No. He did the opposite. He did the opposite. It wasn't like, okay, you have done this, I'm going to draw a line and you are cut off. You can never step over this line. You are cut off from the rest of us forever for what you for what you've done. No. He's giving the woman another opportunity to start over, to live her life, and daring anybody who has ever, you know, who has never sinned, okay, be the first one, throw a stone. Daring them to do it because he knows not a one of them can do it. Yep. With truth. Yep. So so that's a great point to make. It's just all those people that wanted to pick up a stone and throw it, yeah. I don't know. Where did did Jesus have a moment where he was able to soften their hearts through life? Logic through truth. Mm-hmm. Um or you know, did they did they drop it out of did they did they all have a moment of fear? Did they fear the Lord at that point? No, it doesn't really say why they they dropped the stones and walked away. Correct? Yeah, it doesn't like say like you But our context could be probably Yeah, we don't get interviews with all the men all the people that were there that were gonna you know we don't have that. Yeah. So it's just Jesus made such a compelling argument statement that none of them could question. Yep. You know, without fear of the Lord themselves. Um so again, what do we need all this for if any time somebody does anything to us that hardens our heart that we would rather push them away than try to draw them back in?

SPEAKER_02:

Yep.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, what good is the service we have to the Lord if every time somebody does something we are not pleased with that we make up the judgment call and we say, okay, you gotta stay over there now. You can't you can't be part of us anymore because you know, you just you screwed up too many times.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Oh, it's a good thing I the Lord didn't say that to me.

SPEAKER_00:

Right? Yeah, it's a good thing he didn't say it to me.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. And me. Yep. Same. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

See you. And that's messed up in the world. You know what? And that's to me, that's such an important part of things. I think about this a lot is you cannot hide behind your faith. Right. You can't you are not being a good steward of the Lord if if you've used your faith to hide. Yes. Hide yourself, to hide what your past to what you've done. No, it has to be a testimony.

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

Just when Michael was telling his story again in church this past Sunday. I swear every time he tells that story, it gets bigger. It's like catching the fish.

SPEAKER_03:

Chase is like, I've I've heard of the story, but I don't remember SWAT teams. I'm like, well, it happened.

SPEAKER_00:

The first time he caught a bluegill, then it's a bass, then it's a walleye. Now he's now it's a marlin. So I was kind of laughing about that. Like every time he tells it, I learn something new about it.

SPEAKER_05:

But you know, every time he tells it, I cry.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it does.

SPEAKER_05:

It affects you because it's like my mama's heart just breaks its parents.

SPEAKER_00:

And it's but but it's just so it's just so real. And it like he said, it wasn't funny at the time. No, but he could look back on and be like, wow, that was, you know, I can't believe this. I can't believe that happened to me. Uh I can't believe where where I was. And I and like he said, I thought I was with the Lord. Yeah. I thought I knew the Lord.

SPEAKER_02:

Yep.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, but I didn't.

SPEAKER_02:

Yep.

SPEAKER_00:

Um, yeah. And so that's very important. And I think maybe sometimes that's another part of it with a hardened heart, is people are more willing, they they want to shield their faults and what they have done, if it means inflicting guilt upon somebody else. You know, if they can get everybody to look the other way about, oh, what you've done, nobody will look at them.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And so when you're doing that, once again, you're creating a hardened heart. You're not out there trying to help anybody.

SPEAKER_03:

Soften hearts.

SPEAKER_00:

You're not, you're not trying to bring anybody back to the Lord.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, for fear that you might have to have a tough conversation where you may have to admit that perhaps I was wrong. Perhaps I screwed up, perhaps I didn't do everything the way I was supposed to. And that's hard for a lot of people to say I was wrong.

SPEAKER_02:

Yep. Mm-hmm. Yep.

SPEAKER_00:

No, that's very hard. It is hard for people to say, I screwed up. And it can be the simplest thing. Like even at work, if somebody makes a mistake, they can't just say, Yeah, I measured that wrong.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. They have to blame the print. They have to blame the tape measure.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, the tape measure, the print being made wrong or something. Yeah, it's always something. I was distracted, somebody he told me to do this. You know, it's always somebody else's fault.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Instead of just saying, Nope, I got it. It was my fault, I'll get it right. Yep. I I take I take it. So the more you do those kinds of things, the harder your heart gets. Because you're pushing people away when you do that.

SPEAKER_03:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

And most of the time it's people that you really love. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. And no one wants to be around that, you know? Yeah. That kind of attitude. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And it's and it's hard to operate in that when you always have somebody that every time you call them up on the phone, you end up getting into one of those conversations where, well, I'm wrong again.

SPEAKER_03:

Yep.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, you know, I, you know, it just it comes back to the same negative, you know, they put me in that negative space that I'm really just trying to get away from. Mm-hmm. Um Yeah, so that's that's not the kind of um so some I think sometimes people think they are operating in the word of the Lord. Because they're they're quoting a commandment, they're quoting just their quoting. Scripture.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And they're totally missing the point.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, they're using it as a weapon.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. It puts them in a safe box. But at the same time, it's hardening their heart.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. And they don't even realize it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, they can't let anybody in, you know, because they're they're too like I said, it may they may have to be too vulnerable. And I I think that's more often than not the case.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. Beth, Pharaoh? Are you gonna talk about Pharaoh? Not Pharaoh. Who are you gonna talk about?

SPEAKER_05:

I don't know.

SPEAKER_03:

You said someone about hardening hardening of the hearts, but this is like like I don't think Pharaoh, that's right. Yes. I I've lost my verses on it.

SPEAKER_00:

Exodus.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it was Exodus, right? Yeah. But I don't remember where now.

SPEAKER_05:

So we're not gonna talk about Pharaoh tonight.

SPEAKER_03:

You have a summary in your mind. It's gone.

SPEAKER_05:

Been listening to Nick.

SPEAKER_00:

Maybe it'll come back.

SPEAKER_05:

I'm a spectator today.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, Luke 21 uh 34, Jesus says, Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with dissipation, drunkenness, and the anxieties of life. And that day will close on you unexpectedly, like a trap. For it will come upon all those who live on the face of the whole earth, and that be always on the watch and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man. So he's telling us, you know, be careful that you know your heart your heart is not being hardened to something, well, let's say something emotional, something physical. Because yeah, because I think you know, if you do become uh if you do have an addiction of some sort, um, it can it can take you over, it can gather up all your attention, it can totally uh move you away from God to the point where there's so many I think there's so many definitions of a hardened heart.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_00:

It's not just because somebody's angry. I agree. Or because somebody can't forgive. Uh it could be because, yes, because you do have this addiction that it's like a heart condition to where, yeah, you can't, you're not, you can't focus on anything else.

SPEAKER_03:

Um like psychologically, yeah, it's psychological or mentally proven that addiction is a you know a thing that certain people struggle with more. Like it it's an actual condition. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yep. If you just have a a uh habit, a condition to sin, no matter what it is, then it causes anxiety, which you know, I think for addicts, yes, it causes anxiety because that's all they can think about. Yeah. They're willing to they're willing to steal from their friends, from their family, anything they have to do to get that next fixed, get to keep that addiction going. And that's and they're and again, that's another hardening of the heart. They're there's you're stealing from family members. You know, you're stealing from friends. You might not realize what you're doing in the time because you're probably wouldn't do that in a normal situation. But under this anxiety of this addiction, you you can't help it. You you can't you can't get out of it. Yep. It just you know, it has to be done. You might even feel guilt about it, like I'm sorry I did it again. I won't do it again. But until the next time. Till the next time.

SPEAKER_03:

Yep.

SPEAKER_00:

And that's another hardening of the heart. Like you you you're totally closing yourself off from the Lord and from that reason to the point where you'll you'll do anything it takes.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

To, you know, to serve that addiction.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah. So you know that that's we see that's can circle around all the way around to, you know, some people are so angry about things that it becomes an addiction to them.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

They'll base the rest of their life in how they view the world and how they're gonna approach the world and approach people. All based on that whatever sound circumstance.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. Yep.

SPEAKER_00:

So that's another hardening of the heart.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

But again, as Roger said, there's proof that it can't you can soften the heart. You can turn it around.

SPEAKER_05:

God is can do anything. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

But in you have to be willing. He has you have to be you got that freedom of choice. You know, I can do anything, but free will be free will, that's what I was wanting. But come out and say we got pharaoh and freedom of choice. We're not tired tonight.

SPEAKER_03:

I knew what you meant.

SPEAKER_00:

No, I'm trying to think you got a thought, you got it?

SPEAKER_05:

No, I just was trying to think Pharaoh. Who was gonna talk about Pharaoh?

SPEAKER_00:

In John uh 12, 39, he says, for this reason they could not believe, because as Isaiah says elsewhere, he has blinded their eyes and deadened their hearts, so they can neither see with their eyes nor understand with their hearts. So people get people can have situations where something has happened to them and they can no longer believe. Yeah. They've chosen to loan longer as we started this topic. You know. Well, you know, the next door neighbor just seems like they got it all going on, and I don't even see them, and I don't even see them going to church every Sunday. Right.

SPEAKER_03:

You know, they stay home every Sunday, they watch football, they golf, they golf, they have a family of five and golf, mom and dad golf. I'm not lying. I'm like, man, Sunday fun day. And I love it. I seriously love them, you know, and I'm like, but they don't go, you know, and and but yeah, it seems like they have it all together, you know. But you also you don't know their story. You don't know. Yeah, number one, you don't know your story.

SPEAKER_00:

And number two, even if that is the case, even if they are in a season where everything's peachy and everything's going well, uh that does not mean that they're in season with the Lord, that they're that that they're where they're where they're supposed to be with the Lord. Yep. We c we cannot judge uh again you can't judge wealth, you can't judge health, you can't judge uh any of those things and say that's not the definition of of where you are.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

You know um it has to that's that's probably I think honestly, I probably think that's probably one of people's main problems. Is that they're always just again why why why am I on this path?

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, they're not keeping their eyes on their road and their path. They're like, well, so and so has it better. Well, yeah. You also don't know what so and so's been through to get there. You know? Exactly. Like they could have already had that valley.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah, that's a good point.

SPEAKER_03:

You know, yeah, they may have been through several valleys and this is their mountaintop.

SPEAKER_00:

Yep. Yeah, that's very true. Yep. And it's easy to think, well, you know, you don't see them working hard now, but maybe they did. Yeah. You know, maybe they've, you know. But again, I think it's that thing though. It's like, well, you know, I feel like I'm doing so much more for the Lord. I feel like what I'm doing is what God wants me to do. So why am I still struggling over here in so-and-so, who I don't think is doing what they should be doing, and they seem to have it all.

SPEAKER_03:

Yep. Getting in your head.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. But you know, we're supposed to have that patience with the Lord. Wait till he comes. You know. Wait, wait until it's our season. Just because we don't have it now does not mean that we're not gonna have it down the road. Yeah. It's gonna come at his appointed time, not ours.

SPEAKER_02:

That's right.

SPEAKER_00:

Um, and we should not be worried about uh as as is often said, you know, the enemy does not attack who it does not have to worry about.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, why would it mess with all the Sunday fun days? Why would he even worry about those people? He's got them.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, he doesn't have to worry about where they're gonna be on the couch on Sunday. He knows that.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, they're not a threat.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, and I'm not and I'm not saying that, you know, if you're staying home watching football. Right. I'm not saying you're out of I don't know your journey with the Lord, but it just when we're looking at this viewpoint, you know, a lot of people could just be like, Well, I'm here every Sunday, you know, and I get home and I roll in the drive from church, and like you said, they're they're you know.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

But I think this circles around to when we're in our crisis, then are we seeking Christ? Because, you know, Satan's after us all the time, all the time, all the time.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

And so he's just waiting to seeing, oh, as we've said direction you're gonna go now. Yeah, you know, what are you gonna do now?

SPEAKER_00:

All you gotta do, all you gotta do is say, you know, I accept battle. Bring it. Okay.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

That's yeah. That's all you gotta say. And sure enough, it's like, okay. You're going to the front line. Where a lot of people they don't they don't say that. So guess what? Yeah, you can stay back in camp. You're not a threat. You're not you're not useful. So a lot of times, yeah, it just it's you know, it it's just so easy to gosh, I wish I had more time to enjoy the things I want to do. You know. But you have to be spiritually mature enough to say, well, yep, I'm tired. You know, I'd love to have some time off. I'd love to, you know, just have a couple Sundays to not do anything. I just want to get up, stay in the same clothes I woke up in, and just lay here on the couch all day and just do what I want to do. But as you say, a lot of times once you've said I I accept this battle, it's like, well, you ain't gonna do that. You know, and you and you can't, you know, yeah, naturally you can get frustrated, but you just have to have that wisdom to say, well, this is this is the season I'm in. I've accepted this. You know, so I'm gonna have it harder, I'm gonna have more responsibility, I'm gonna, you know, have to, you know. I you know, I I can't yeah, once the enemy knows, you know, that, oh this is somebody we gotta somebody we we we gotta keep our eye on.

SPEAKER_03:

Or even if if it's if it's someone who's pushing back against you know, Satan at all, or even just given an opposite view of what anything he has aligned with. Yeah, he he's going to start going full swing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, and and and sometimes I look at it that way. It's like, okay, so I for whatever reason, when I was a teenager, I decided to open this book and start reading it. And perhaps in that moment, that is the same thing as saying, okay, I accept battle. Because I I'm gonna crack this one book that he does not want me to read. You know, I'm gonna crack it open at the age of 13.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So guess what? It's gonna be a little harder for me. We're all, you know, where I can look at I when I was in high school, I thought, yeah, all these other they get to go out every Friday, Saturday night, do whatever they want, they don't have any cares in the world. You know. Yeah. And I'm thinking about all these deep things. I'm already thinking about all these things I probably shouldn't be thinking about at a young age. And it's just like, and it's one thing after another, constant challenges. You know, sometimes I win, I'll be honest. Sometimes I win that battle, sometimes I lose that battle. Yeah. But I always go back in.

SPEAKER_05:

Yep.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I always go back in.

SPEAKER_01:

You learn from the loss.

SPEAKER_05:

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

So I think God had you open that Bible at the age that you were at to prepare you for the life that was coming.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. But he never said, okay, now that you've now that you're in this book, it's all gonna be easy. Since you join my side, well, you you've got it made. And perhaps that's what a lot of people think it's gonna be. Yeah. When they've when they've started the opposite, which is they've had they have had challenges and they have had things in their life that they want to change, and they think, well, if I come if I come right to the Lord, it'll fix everything. Like it's just it'll be just like flipping a switch. It's like, nope. Doesn't work that way. It's not promised that way.

SPEAKER_03:

No. I think we have to be very clear when we are giving the word that it's not going to be that way because then it can leave people astray.

SPEAKER_00:

And I think sometimes, you know, in the days of cable when you could just flip the channels and a pastor would come on the TV.

SPEAKER_03:

I'm sorry, I thought you brought up Cain and Abel earlier. Yeah. And I was like, is that what? I'm like, cable? Did he just like put Cain and Abel a naked hera? No, cable kids.

SPEAKER_00:

Cable. Were you too young for cable?

SPEAKER_03:

No, I know what cable is. Cain and Abel's on my mind, apparently.

SPEAKER_00:

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_03:

Squirrel.

SPEAKER_00:

Do you even remember what you were saying? You know, you could flip the channel and you could come along different religious channels, pastors, and they a lot of them can just make it seem like just come on into the Lord today, give it up, you know, and and they just make it seem like peaches and cream. Yeah, yeah. Just like that's all you gotta do. Send us, send us$20, and your life will change, you know. And I think a lot of people are like, yep, they called a number, they called the number, they gave their twenty dollars, and nothing's changed. And that but that's it for them. They're like, okay, that didn't work. It was like uh going to Vegas and getting that slot one time and you know, thinking it's gonna be all carried. Yeah, you know, you're like, go again. Yeah, a lot of people in this case they don't go again. Yeah, I guess.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

They walk away like, okay, let's try something else. Because again, they're missing, again, there's almost 3,000 pages here. So your journey starts when you accept the battle and you got a lot to go through. And as we know, we go through this is what's great about this podcast is that it gives us the drive and the focus to keep going over this book from week to week. And we come up with these topics that seemingly don't have a connection that can be so random when we start them, and then by the end of it, we're going, wow.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, and did you notice it uh lined up with his testimony on Sunday?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03:

What?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, you guys didn't text each other, right? Some of the things that he was saying, you know, preaching on Sunday, like that's what we talked about in the podcast. And I don't know if he had listened to it or not, but sometimes it's just funny how everything will follow.

SPEAKER_03:

Work for his own.

SPEAKER_00:

To me, that's that's not a coincidence.

SPEAKER_03:

No, nope.

unknown:

No.

SPEAKER_03:

I agree.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and and I but I will say, once once you're in the word and you do this all the time, because sometimes I come in here and I'm like, man, I I I didn't, you know, I didn't study up on this as much as I wanted to, and I I plan to really write all these notes down and really prepare for a good podcast. And I just, you know, but then I always have that thought. It's like I'm just a conduit for the Lord's.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, like this the the topic was just a starting point for the night.

SPEAKER_00:

Like depending on if the Lord's got it, if I've been in the word enough, I'm gonna say the right things, even though I don't I didn't write it down.

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm not speaking verbatim from scripture.

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

But I got it, it's gonna be there. Because because it's gonna come from the Lord. Yep. As long as that is my intention, my desire, that's what's going to happen. Yes. And if I don't say it, Beth's gonna say it. And if Beth don't say it, Roger's gonna say it. Yeah. If all of us don't say it, Sid's gonna say it. Yeah. And it all just exactly that's the way it works. Yep. You know, but and sometimes I think nothing else works that way. Like if if we all came in here with a textbook on how to repair a nineteen uh eighty-seven Ford Bronco, yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

We'd we'd be like staring at each other like I hope someone worked for Ford because Yeah, like I did.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Roger might be able to walk us through it a little bit. But you know what I mean? It's not like uh it's not like anything else.

SPEAKER_03:

No, no, it's really not. And people truly won't understand that until they get in that relationship and come to know him and realize how he's working. Yeah exactly as we're saying.

SPEAKER_00:

Yep. But that means we have to be working. Yes. You know, yeah. We just we we don't just get to sit in a lawn chair with lemonade and watch God go to work.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, that's that's not, and I think sometimes people expect that. They just expect the Lord to solve all their problems. And that doesn't that doesn't show faith, that shows expectation. There's a difference between faith and expectation. Oh, that's a topic.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh. I'll write it down.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. Right? I mean, there's there is a difference between having faith and having expectation.

SPEAKER_03:

Um another thing to piggyback on. I guess it kind of piggybacks on another piggyback. So I opened up Psalms 6.

SPEAKER_00:

Six envision a shirt with organic church on the front, and then it's got a bunch of pigs jumping over you.

SPEAKER_03:

See, I envisioned a shirt saying cable spelled C I. Wait, C-A-I-B-E-L.

SPEAKER_00:

Watch piggyback jumping on cable. On organic on the organic cable network.

SPEAKER_03:

But okay, the piggybacking thing was I don't even know why I did was someone talking about Psalm 60 at all during this? I don't know. But I don't I don't think wait. I don't think so. Beth said something about Psalms, but I think I was trying to get to it. I don't remember which one it was, but anyway, I opened up the book, and there's a couple of these, they're not paragraphs, what would you call them? Um I'm just gonna call them paragraphs. Or I guess they might be chapters, but they end with Sayla, Sayla, Sayla, Sayla. And that was, you know, my uh my stepsister and her husband, they have Enoch. Well, then when they were pregnant with their other, they were trying to figure out names and they were between Sayla and another one, like another name. Well, she flipped to the scripture of the day at church. What do you know? It said Selah. So it's like, man, you know, that's crazy. But that was just God working in that way. Like, hey, yeah, you need you need the name or Selah. There you go.

SPEAKER_01:

Yep.

SPEAKER_03:

That's your that's your decision. I made it for you.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, pretty much.

SPEAKER_03:

What'd you say that was difference between faith over expectation? Yep. Got it. Okay. I've got two two topics, ideas. So the Ten Commandments and then that one.

SPEAKER_00:

Very good.

SPEAKER_03:

Then we can make the little t-shirt on the side, too.

SPEAKER_00:

The little t-shirt on the side. I can just see the pigs doing like a leap leapfrog. You know, like yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

We'll have to ask uh over a puddle. Over a puddle council about hey, do we have enough uh money to Beth? Do we? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00:

People are like, what in the world?

SPEAKER_03:

Pigs piggybacking.

SPEAKER_00:

Like, well, you gotta listen to the podcast.

SPEAKER_03:

That's yeah, that'll prove if you're actually listening or not.

SPEAKER_00:

Do you know what it means?

SPEAKER_03:

That's a good way to get people to start listening. Yeah, what like yeah. If you know, you know.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Knowing is half the battle.

SPEAKER_03:

Yep. That's fun.

SPEAKER_00:

Um I would did want to read from uh Ephesians 4, 17. So he says, So I tell you this and insist on it in the Lord, that you must no longer live as the Gentiles do in the futility of their thinking. They are darkened in their understanding and are separated from the life of God because of their ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts. Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity with a continual lust for more.

SPEAKER_03:

That was Ephesians.

SPEAKER_00:

417. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

And what did you take away from that when you read it?

SPEAKER_00:

Um I think it goes back to everything that we're talking about and having a true the when people harden their hearts uh their understanding becomes very narrow.

SPEAKER_02:

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00:

Because like you said, they want to cherry pick. They want to take these three thousand pages and they want to reduce it down to a one page, ten page, you know, of how how it can affect their their uh desire to live life. So that's how you go into that futility of that thinking is that it's the futility that you you are not going to grow in Christ. You are not gonna grow in your relationships with other people. Everything that you do is gonna be futile because you you can't you can't have a relationship with human beings or the Lord when you're willing to, you know, just reduce your understanding.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

And even though, or ignore you know, what you have in front of you in order to, whether it's to protect yourself or to protect somebody else or to um use it as some kind of power over somebody or influence or whatever whatever your intention is. Um if it's if it's not based on a total understanding of the Lord, yeah, and that's how you're directing your emotions, your relationships, and all those things, then yeah. You're gonna have a heart and heart.

SPEAKER_03:

Yep.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

You're slowly just going to turn inward.

SPEAKER_03:

And be consumed by it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, you're just gonna turn inward. Yeah. Instead of we're supposed to be we're supposed to be going. Yes. You know, not turning ourselves in. And a hardening of the heart, that's what that does. You just become, you know your numerouno.

SPEAKER_03:

Focusing on yourself and your own emotions and feelings. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

That doesn't serve anybody. Might might serve you for a while. For a minute, but it's but I don't know if I don't think you can find true happiness in that.

SPEAKER_03:

No, because it'll start negative negatively serving you.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Based on how to do that. That just leads to isolation.

SPEAKER_00:

Yep. Yep. What's so funny over there?

SPEAKER_05:

Roger's yawning, I'm yawning. You know how you see one person yawn and then the next person does.

SPEAKER_03:

It is like yeah. Contagious.

SPEAKER_00:

Yep. So yeah, that's that's what I took from that. Uh Beth, what'd you take from that?

SPEAKER_05:

I'm gonna agree with you.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, even like you were bringing up in Luke earlier, you know, um with like the anxieties and stuff, like that leads to isolation, like you just said, you know?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

It does.

SPEAKER_00:

There's no fellowship in that.

SPEAKER_03:

No.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, there's no fellowship in it. The only other one I had was Hebrews uh three fifteen. Three Hebrews three fifteen. Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion. So the more you rebel against God, the more you harden your heart. You hear the word, but you don't receive the word.

SPEAKER_03:

Next morning, you don't do it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Then uh that's rebellion. And that only leads to destruction. Yes. Wow.

SPEAKER_03:

That sounds like a like a t-shirt?

SPEAKER_00:

Like Megatron from the Transformers or something.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Like a commercial for a toy. Destruction. Yes. Yes. Mm-hmm. She's been watching way too many of them cartoons before.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah, she's gonna be. Yeah. So so what uh what does Cooper watch right now? Because we're in we're in the uh we're in the Mickey Mouse season.

SPEAKER_03:

Are you?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

So he does he's so goofy. So he's only gotten he likes Mickey, but like he doesn't like watching Mickey Mouse. Like he likes seeing him. I think so how it started was his um it'd be his aunt had a Mickey Mouse from when he she was younger, because I think she's 13. So she gave Cooper Mickey Mouse, and then I put Mickey Mouse on the TV, and he was like all for him at first, and he'll still watch Mickey Mouse, like a video of Mickey Mouse doing head, shoulders, knees, and toes, or a song of Mickey doing something, but he won't sit there and watch him. Same thing with like Bluey and Bingo, like he didn't want anything to do with them. And then I think we bought him like a t-shirt or my mom bought something, and now he'll somewhat watch Blueie in the mornings, like when he's because he'll still drink a bottle, like when he still wakes up, like a transition bottle thing. Um, but then we've been having some issues like putting him to sleep. So Chase's mom said something about it's these cats. It looks like a a cat, like it's it's cat's AI is what it is, but it's like this cat that's acting like a mom. She's like making dinner over the frying pan, and and I'm like, what is she said, well, you know, I had him at my house one day, and um he, you know, he wouldn't fall asleep in the crib, so I brought him down and was on the couch with him, and she's like, I I would just go like this with his nose, and he fell right asleep. As soon as I did that one day, I went like this. He was like, I'm like, you little punk. Like you let Bubba do it, but not me. Like, I think it's because he knew he was getting tired because it has it has a very calming sound to it, like not a violin, but it's just very soothing and calming. And so sometimes at night, if he because I mean the past two nights he won't, he like refuses to fall asleep. So and he did have a double ear infection, which we got that solved last week because I'm like, well, maybe we've got something going on, and sure enough we did, you know, and because I think it was only one night where I was like, he had a harder time falling asleep, and then he kind of did something with his ear. I'm like, hmm, you know, but yeah, so it's kind of been cats and um oh wiggles, that's been the thing right now. But it then again, it's only on YouTube, and he only likes um Biz now sleep. Shh shh. It's like all these songs.

SPEAKER_00:

He just likes to listen to songs and music and dances and is this like old or are they still going? Are the wiggles still going?

SPEAKER_03:

I don't know if they're still going. They have a ton of videos on YouTube though. That's what we turn on. But they have like videos on there that teaches them like learning things. I haven't I actually was on their channel yesterday, like what other things do they have? Because um, and yeah, I need the I need to just but he doesn't like all of their videos, only certain ones. He's how old? 18 months. Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So he can't really tell you what's wrong yet.

SPEAKER_03:

No, right it's yeah, with Faye, it's just but he's in this phase where he says please about everything. Please, please, please. I'm like, like earlier he was wanting me to move out of the seat so he could sit there. I'm like, because he started pulling himself up onto our chairs now. I'm like, listen, buddy, just because you say please about everything, like doesn't mean I have to do it, you know. Magic word. Yeah, because he's he's trying to push his limits.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, well, he found out it worked. Yes. Now he's just going to town. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05:

Mm-hmm. Now, how old's your granddaughter?

SPEAKER_00:

Uh pretty, pretty close.

SPEAKER_03:

Like six or eight weeks.

SPEAKER_00:

Help me out here. She'll be two in February.

SPEAKER_03:

February. So okay, so like twenty twenty months. Yeah. Yeah. Ish. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And she's just she's getting a lot more vocal. Yeah, she could say a lot more words and um repeat a lot of things back.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Um Chase do like people's names, like she's getting starting to get a lot of people's names.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. Um Chase will do like a like say one more, like and he'll go, one more. And Cooper started going, one more. Like who goes, mm-hmm. Like put his little finger up. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

But then one day I was counting to three because he wouldn't like stop doing something. I'm like, one, two, but before I said two, he goes, hmm? And like points his finger up. I'm like, no, that not that one.

SPEAKER_01:

This is the one where you're going to be disciplining, sir.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. You say no, she'll say no. Um, but yeah, it's it's like it's amazing because even when we were in Maine, uh, because I was around her every day. Yeah, yeah. And it just was like, wow.

SPEAKER_03:

Like, yeah, my dad definitely got that realization at like on vacation. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Like she was a lot more just vocal and could say a lot more things.

SPEAKER_03:

And even Alyssa saw, you know, she was in nursery on Sunday and was like, Oh my gosh, Cooper's like actually understanding what I'll say now and like, you know, try to say something back or knows what I'm talking about. Like, if you tell him go get your shoes, he's going to get his shoes, you know.

SPEAKER_01:

Like once he settled down.

SPEAKER_05:

There's a surge of independence.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh yeah, he's got some independence.

SPEAKER_00:

No more trips to the dryer.

SPEAKER_03:

Oh no, no, not since last week. Yeah. They're they're fun though.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh yeah. They're a lot more fun than when they're not yours and you can send them home. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I think let's see. Um, Saturday. Well, we kept we kept her over Friday night. And then Saturday we got up and went to like it's not a pumpkin patch, but this guy was like selling pumpkins and mums, and so we took her out there. But by the end of that trip, she was just not having it. And we're like, okay, time to go back to mom and dad.

SPEAKER_03:

Here you go. Yeah, that's fine.

SPEAKER_00:

It's like you can spoil them all you want, and you go, here you go. Yeah. I got her all. Yeah. Go to all sugar it up and ripped it. She's tired now, she's sick of us. Here you go.

SPEAKER_03:

Yep. My stepmom uh she tries to take all the little ones like somewhere every every few months. She'll, okay, it's your turn, it's your turn. And it was Cooper's turn. And she took her, took him to the pumpkin patch. He didn't care. Like it was the slide thing that has the corn at the bottom, all these things. He was just straight faced the whole time. And then she's like, but he was excited to pick out a pumpkin. I'm like, yeah, because it's it looks like a ball. So he's like, you know, he's all about that. Yeah. It's funny. She was looking forward to it for, you know, a month or so. Like, take it to the pumpkin patch.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, you always think it's gonna be so great. Uh-huh. And then you get there and you're like, they are not receiving this. Yes, yes, yes. Like, yeah.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Is this for me or for them? Yeah. And it is. And you're right. It's like this is for you. And you're just hoping the kid goes along. Yep. And then they don't, and you're like, you've ruined everything.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah. You're like, well, your expectations on me were kind of.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I'm just gonna do it. I'm I'm consistent. You're the one that's yeah, making these unreasonable expectations for me.

SPEAKER_05:

Take them to Disney, spend all that money. Yeah, and there's and Mickey Mouse is just one big rat at that point.

SPEAKER_03:

Yep.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Yep.

SPEAKER_02:

Well.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Well, any parting wisdom? Don't eat the yellow snow. Rang Zappa. Right? Hey, I know my stuff.

SPEAKER_01:

I got a million of them.

SPEAKER_03:

Uh, Nick, your turn to pray? Yep. Okay, I'm gonna get you started.

SPEAKER_02:

All right.

SPEAKER_00:

Lord, thank you for bringing us all together to get tonight. Um my main prayer tonight is no matter where we are, what we're doing, um, who we are in relationship with, um, always help us to always try to be more open to bringing your word to people and not using your words to try to push people away, to try to prove our point, um, to try to um for our own selfish ambitions. Just always help us uh prevent ourselves from having a hardened heart with people, to always try to be understanding, um, to help other people see your wisdom by being open, by bringing people to us. Um I pray that um we can continue to have this uh that we can continue to seek discernment anytime that we we feel that we are being challenged, that we if we do feel we're in crisis, that we do feel um that um there may be a relationship that we're having with somebody else that might not be exactly where we want it to be. Um that we are seeking your guidance, and we are not only praying for ourselves for your wisdom, but we're also praying that uh the people we're we are in relationship with will gain that wisdom as well. Yes. Um I pray everybody makes it home safely tonight. Um I pray all these things in your precious name. Amen.

SPEAKER_02:

Amen.

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Michael Brindley

Host
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Beth Jarvis

Co-host
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Dawn Reed-Enochs

Co-host
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Nic Affolter

Co-host
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Roger Deardorff

Co-host
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Sydney Erickson

Co-host

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