Obligation V. Confrontation

What do you do when compassion collides with conflict? We dig into the real tension between our call to share the gospel and the moments when people resist, test boundaries, or demand help on their terms. A vivid story from our church sets the stage: a young man asks for aid, rejects prayer, and later calls for money, forcing a choice between kindness and enabling. From there, we get honest about how often this same tension shows up at the family cookout, on the job site, and anywhere faith meets everyday life.

We talk through the Great Commission as a shared calling and how Jesus’ instruction to shake the dust off protects us from burnout and bitterness. You’ll hear practical ways to be a calm, visible Christian presence without preaching at people: small signs of faith that invite conversation, a steady spirit when others spiral, and a willingness to pray or listen without making the moment about you. We also tackle church hurt and the myth of perfection, reminding each other that God uses imperfect people now. Finding purpose doesn’t always mean doing more; it means doing the right thing for the right reasons, even when it’s quiet, unglamorous work.

Along the way, we press into accountability as love. Saying no to manipulation isn’t hard-hearted; it honors dignity and truth. We explore how to avoid denying Christ under pressure, how to set wise boundaries, and how to keep showing up with humility when doors open. If you’re wrestling with where to draw the line, how to stand firm without becoming harsh, and how to keep your witness strong in messy places, this conversation will help you move forward with courage and clarity.

If this resonated, subscribe, share the show with a friend who needs encouragement, and leave a review to help more people find the conversation. Tell us: where do you draw the line between helping and enabling?

Chapters

• 0:00 Winter Catch-Up And Cruise Plans
• 3:52 Introducing Obligation Versus Confrontation
• 7:17 The Young Man At Church And Boundaries
• 11:27 The Great Commission And Everyday Pushback
• 15:57 Family, Work, And Quiet Witness
• 20:42 Accountability, Enabling, And Moving On
• 24:47 Living It At Work Without Preaching
• 28:37 Church Hurt, Purpose, And Growth
• 33:47 Don’t Deny Christ Under Pressure
• 37:37 Finding Your Lane And Staying Faithful
• 41:57 Encouragement, Prayer, And Closing

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:40

Welcome back, everybody. We are at Organic Church, and this is Growing Together, a podcast where we talk about everything: Jesus, friendship, fellowship, you name it. If it's helping lifting people up, that's what we're doing. And I am more than happy to have my good friend Dale Walker back here for a couple more episodes. And I thought the first two went really well and moved on and brought my wife on for a couple episodes, and I was pretty happy with those. So I think for the good ones.

SPEAKER_01: 1:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:15

So I think well, we're we're rolling along pretty good here. Really happy with results and excited to have you on here again. We all survived January. Wherever you are, hope you survive January. Okay. I mean, here in Ohio we had quite the snowstorm. Kind of just covered everything up. Everything's still covered up. Might be covered up for a while. I think we're even supposed to get some more snow this weekend, right?

SPEAKER_01: 1:39

Yep. Yes, we are. I'm not looking forward to me and snow.

SPEAKER_00: 1:45

That was a lot of shoveling.

SPEAKER_01: 1:47

A lot of shoveling. Yeah. And I'm 64, so yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:50

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I'm 46. And I that Sunday, I was like, I am not waiting until the snow is over. I will stay ahead of this. So I was out there, I think, Saturday two times. Sunday was out there another two times, out there again on Monday. And you just you really had to keep up with it. I don't know what you got in the end, but it felt like at our house it was like 13, 14 inches when it was all said and done.

SPEAKER_01: 2:16

Oh my gosh. Well, in our yard, we have this tiny, like tiny hill now. So it was we got about about a foot. About a foot. So it was not fun. I went out to uh our shed behind our house, and the front obviously is like all shoveled, and you go out to the back, and I don't do the back. It's going back there. So I go and all of a sudden it's it's normal, normal foot of snow. So I was like, yeah, not good. No, but yeah, when yeah, and like you said, we're supposed to get more, so definitely gonna have to try and stay ahead of it with the shoveling and salting and all that stuff that comes with Ohio winters.

SPEAKER_00: 3:05

So yep, and I've got seven more working days left, and I am leaving this godforsaken tundra. The frozen to going on a cruise. Oh, yeah. That's we'll be leaving on the 14th, and we're really looking forward to it just to actually feel the sun.

SPEAKER_01: 3:22

And you're going where now?

SPEAKER_00: 3:24

I think the Caribbean.

SPEAKER_01: 3:26

Ooh, yeah, that'll be good. That'll be good. Super hospitality. I I've never I've only been to the Bahamas, but so much fun. I mean, crystal blue water, and and they tell you right off the bat, the water's not blue because it's blue, it's blue because it's so clear that the sky reflects, and you're actually looking at the sky and not the water.

SPEAKER_00: 3:52

That makes perfect sense.

SPEAKER_01: 3:53

So I was like, wow.

SPEAKER_00: 3:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 3:55

But it it's it's awesome. Took a glass bottom boat, and you can just see all the it it's super. Gotta gotta do all inclusive.

SPEAKER_00: 4:04

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We've got excursions planned. Uh we're actually on priority now. We got we got bumped up to priority, nice, which was awesome. So now we'll get to get on the boat first, we get to get off the boat first. Our room is no longer because I this is my first cruise. So the way the wife explained it to me, our room would be almost like a closet. They're so small. Well, yeah, we even bumped up to a suite with priority. So we'll actually have, I guess, a jacuzzi tub and actually like be the size of a hotel room, I guess, with a balcony, so we can go out onto the balcony.

SPEAKER_01: 4:38

Oh, look at you.

SPEAKER_00: 4:39

Yeah, I didn't get to keep those amenities, but well, and of course I told her, I said, you realize, I said, This being my first cruise, I'm going first class this time. I cannot be bumped.

SPEAKER_01: 4:51

It's gotta be this. Yeah, you're gonna have to keep this time. You gotta keep this level up.

SPEAKER_00: 4:56

So you can't bump me back to coach.

SPEAKER_01: 4:59

Oh no, because it's uh you're not you're not in there very much anyway, but still, once you get a hotel room type atmosphere, you can't go to just bunking up.

SPEAKER_03: 5:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 5:12

But yeah, I think I think you'll love it. I mean, I my first one when we went, I did I I had a ball. I just it was there's so many things to do on the on the ship and off the ship. And like you said, if you got excursions planned and little, you know, side things to do, it it'll be a great time for you.

SPEAKER_00: 5:32

So they said the food just keeps coming. Yeah. No end.

SPEAKER_01: 5:37

So no end, no, no time of day that it's not not okay to just rumble through there and grab something. There's just no frog legs.

SPEAKER_00: 5:46

No. No. Don't have to worry about me.

SPEAKER_01: 5:50

I tried those just because I'm like adventurous. So I'm like, I'd try these. No, they have a they have like they say, oh, tastes just like chicken. Does not because it has like a a swampy taste.

SPEAKER_00: 6:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 6:06

Of course it does. Yeah. So I'm like, no. Yeah. Pass. That's just my culinary.

SPEAKER_00: 6:13

Yeah, I agree. I'm I'm very picky anyway, so I'm not, I'm not veering off and trying to stop doing that.

SPEAKER_01: 6:21

You're better off not to do that.

SPEAKER_00: 6:23

Yeah, we'll be good. So well, sir, you came up with this topic. You brought this one to me, and we discussed it a little bit over the phone, and topic is obligation versus confrontation, correct? Correct. All right. So why don't you tell everybody a little bit how you came up with this and what is your inspiration for the subject?

SPEAKER_01: 6:47

Well, I added to it, not that it changes the topic any, I added or conflict. And it's basically based on an interaction I had slightly after church. We had a young man, and you said you weren't there. That's correct. That's correct. So we had a young man come into our church and he was needing help. So a couple of the pastors, including our senior pastor Michael, wanted to pray for him, and he's talking through them, praying for him, and he's not really engaged, and he's kind of disconnected, almost like seemed to be struggling emotionally. And so he left, he was calling the people of the church all different kinds of names, and I went and I helped him. I took him out to get gas for his car, basically to get him away from the kids and stuff, because he was starting to get a little wild. So took him to get gas, and while I'm there, he's confronting me and telling me I'm, you know, I'm not a Christian and I'm not, you know, I I'm not doing the will of God or whatever. And it kinda made me think because we exchanged numbers because I really did want to help him, and I really do want to help him. And so the whole entire week that he had my number, he would call and ask for money and to my house is, you know, my rent is due and all these things. And I'm like, You are first of all in a place where I can't reach you. But long story short, it was more he he was in need. He wasn't really looking for Christianly help. He was more or less looking for financial help, more or less looking for someone to uh bankroll his life. And so it got me to thinking our obligation and I took it from Matthew 28 verses 18 and 20. And if you don't care, I'll read it.

SPEAKER_00: 9:13

Yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01: 9:16

And it says, And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Son, the Father, and the Holy Ghost, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. And so we we all know what the Great Commission is. That commission is for everybody, not just for pastors or whatever. But I started to ask myself what what do you do with your obligation, which is that, in the face of confrontation or conflict. And it's not just a bold conflict like that. It's it's a simple conflict, like with family. You go, you go to a family get together and and they're hanging out and they're smoking pot or whatever. And I'm not saying smoking pot's bad. Some people have uh health conditions and that helps them relax, whatever. But let's say just behaviors that aren't in line with the will of God. And you don't bring up God at family get-togethers because you don't want to be the oddball uncle or the And you don't want to start anything. Yeah, you're like, oh, there's Uncle Dale, he's you know, and so I started to wonder how do you balance or how do you commit yourself to doing what God would have you do in the face of people being who they are and and trying to maintain a friendship, uh a family relationship, trying to lead people where they need to go in the Lord? So because all of us battle alone, uh no matter what, no matter what happens when it's all said and done, as Pastor says, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. So we're all trying to figure it out on our own, but we're all also not to forsake wise counsel. So how do you balance or reconcile yourself to the fact that no matter what I'm gonna get here as far as you know, blowback, I need to I need to say something. I need to when situations aren't what they ought to be, I need to push forward and say, look, this is what my father says. Not me. I'm saying what he says, and if you say you're a Christian, if you say you're you're a follower of God, you shouldn't be upset with me. You shouldn't but a lot of people don't want to rock the boat. And so it's so much easier, like when you go to work, it's so much easier just like, hey guys, how you doing? Blah blah blah, what the yeah, yeah, yeah. Let them fly just so you fit in. Yeah. But and and that's kind of where I am. I just kind of figure we could bounce that around for a little bit and see what see what we can do.

SPEAKER_00: 12:45

Well, let's go back to your confrontation with this young man to start. So he comes into the church and he's asking for help. But his whole demeanor and approach is to deflect as many people as he can from from people from people, you know, uh that was trying to help him. Yeah, that was trying to help him. And then you say you go, which that could have been very unsafe for you, by the way, Dale, to go get a gas. You realize this, right?

SPEAKER_01: 13:19

Oh I tell you this part, but the church followed me. Yeah, okay. Yeah, well, that's good.

SPEAKER_00: 13:26

Yes, it was not maybe. I mean, your heart was in the right place, maybe that your head wasn't, but yeah, probably not the sweetest thing to do. No, but it's still, I mean, but that's still awesome that you did it, you know, that you took it upon yourself to do it. But you go that far to say, hey, you know, there's not maybe not a whole lot I can do for you right now, but here's what I can do I can take you down to the gas station and fill you up. Which not everybody's gonna do that.

SPEAKER_01: 13:53

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00: 13:54

And so he knows, so already you're revealing your your kindness to him, your heart, and you get to the gas station and he starts telling you you're not a Christian. Yeah. So go into that a little bit more.

SPEAKER_01: 14:07

So an another thing about him is all over his dash he had inappropriate sayings and things like that. He had two Bibles sitting on his on his dash, and and they were open, and he was he he knew some verses uh to the Bible, but uh at the gas station, I I'm I put like a few dollars in the amount's not important, but he was taught he was talking about our church with and he came in following service, so he has no idea actually what our church is even like. So he came in at the tail end of service and needing needing help, and they were willing to help right away. They were willing to leap right in, you know, we'll pray for you, we'll connect you with what you need, and before before they could even start, you know, giving him any kind of aid, he was ridiculing them. And so I'm like, you can't ask for hand and then bite the hand that feeds you. You know, so it's like I'm like, I don't know how you expect to get any help when you're like they're reaching it out and you're slapping it at the same time. It's it's never worked and never will work. But I was it it was confusing to me.

SPEAKER_00: 15:38

Well, apparently there's some conflict within his his mind and in his soul, because you've got all these inappropriate sayings, and but then you've got two Bibles on the dash. Not one, but two. Two. So you do have to wonder, you know. Yeah, obviously there's there's some conflict within himself, what and whether that's induced by some chemical imbalance or substance abuse, or you know, you could really dig into that and try to figure out it would be so hard to really get inside his mind and say, like, okay, you could you could tell, like, you know, nobody puts two Bibles in their car. You know, if you don't have some desire to want to know God's word, but at the same time, you can see he's fighting all these all these demons, apparently. Absolutely. And so he doesn't even at this point, he's he's so conflicted he doesn't even know how to ask for help properly.

SPEAKER_01: 16:44

You know, he's and I would also say during our conversations, like I s like I said, you I had him on my phone in my phone for almost a week. And so during some of our conversations, anything that didn't quite go his way was met with almost like childlike insults and stuff. I'm like, and he he wasn't he was a young man, but he was not like he wasn't like in his teens. So he I would say he was at least of drinking age. So you have a you have a young man who's old enough to to purport himself in a little better situation.

SPEAKER_00: 17:31

And there is the possibility that, you know, this is his game, this is what he does. Oh, yeah, yeah. He he's gone from church to church to church to see how much he can get, and that's his whole approach to life is and and then of course, like you said, when he doesn't get it, then it's he he won instead of instead of looking within himself and saying, I am not Christ-like, I am not with God, I am not a Christian, instead of putting the blame on himself for the life that he's living, he's going to accuse everybody else and put it all on them when in fact he's all the things that he's saying to you, he should be saying to himself.

SPEAKER_01: 18:11

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00: 18:13

So when when we're talking about confrontation and obligation, you know, yes, you you always have an obligation to respond the way that you did to that situation. But then you then then you immediately receive this confrontation from somebody. And as a Christian, then it's hard to say, okay, now what do I do? Because it'd be very normal for somebody, even a Christian like yourself, to respond in an unchristian way once somebody attacks you. Oh, yeah. You know, you you could be like, you could uh just really let him have it.

SPEAKER_01: 18:54

So I'm like, are you kidding me?

SPEAKER_00: 18:55

I I did all this and you're so what do you do in that situation, you know? If it was me, I I think I would respond, I I would be I would make it very clear that look, even even though this is your response, I still want to help you, and I believe that you can get help, but I can't help you until you yourself decide that you know what, I gotta remove myself from this situation that I'm in, and the spirit of being that I have, and put all the accountability on yourself. You you've got to have accountability, and as and as a Christian, it's it is okay to instead of helping them financially or helping them out of out of remove trying to remove them from a tough situation, it's okay to have that confrontation, say you are accountable for what you do. You know, I can only help you so far. Yeah, I can I can I can get you another 200 miles down the road, and let's face it, maybe he used all that gas to go for to another five churches and see what he could get out of them. But that's that's that's but that doesn't harm you at all. No, you know what he does, what he does after you've helped him, if it's all bad, but that's and that's no blame to you whatsoever. You know.

SPEAKER_01: 20:35

Well, it's like I I think I told Sig, uh, you guys had a a podcast some months back, and she was wondering what you do when you want to tell somebody and they're just not listening, and they get, you know, have their attitude about things. And there's a verse in the Bible that says something about shaking the dust from your feet and moving on.

SPEAKER_00: 21:01

Well, and and Jesus tells his disciples that, yes, you were going to go out, you were going to preach the word, you're gonna have, you're gonna heal the sick, you know, uh, you're gonna exercise the demons, you're you're gonna make the blind see, you're gonna do all the things that I do, you're gonna spread the word. But the fact of the matter is, is there's people that are not going to receive what you have to say, and he pretty much tells them, I don't want you to take any heart in that. Just get up and move on.

SPEAKER_02: 21:31

Yep.

SPEAKER_00: 21:31

You know, you you've done your job, you've done what I asked you to do, but if they don't receive it, don't take it into your heart, don't take it personal, don't lash back and and tell them that they're wrong.

SPEAKER_01: 21:43

Be angry, but do not sin.

SPEAKER_00: 21:45

Yeah, but just get up and move on to the next town. Absolutely. And you know, so yeah, I think that's where that comes from. And and that's a that's that's very good advice, you know, is that that's that's all that's all that we can do in the face of confrontation to what we feel that our mission is. Because as as it's hard for a Christian to, as you said, you know, sometimes you feel like you can lead two lives because we're all forced to go out into this world and occupy places that are not comfortable to us. I mean, even if it's the place you go to work to every single day, you still have to go back into that world that is not of your doing. Like that environment, you can't control that environment. You can't change it. So that that can be very hard. And you want to be able to do your job. You don't want to have this confrontation where people don't like you or going to push back against you because of you trying to fulfill your obligation as a Christian. You know, you just want to be able to go to work, do your job, and go home. Exactly so that's that's a very tough one to overcome. I found for myself, I just kind of like slipping it in there, I guess.

SPEAKER_01: 23:15

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 23:15

You know, that's that's kind of how I do it. Like if we're having a bad day, or even if we're having a good day, something good happens, you know, I'll just kind of slip it in there. Like mention God and how good he's been.

SPEAKER_01: 23:28

And my wife is very good at that.

SPEAKER_00: 23:30

You know, that that's sometimes my my tactic is I I want, I guess I want people to see Christ in me. And I want people to know that they can talk to me about it. And in fact, like on my chalkboard in my office, when Maggie was little, she came in. This was around Easter time, and it's a marker board. And she got on the marker board and she drew three crosses. She put, you know, wrote Jesus on the middle one, and then she drew me, her mom, and herself, and put all these hearts and wrote love on it. And I've never erased it, it's still there. And that's my way of letting people know that I'm a believer.

SPEAKER_01: 24:16

Yeah, but that's for me and my house.

SPEAKER_00: 24:18

Yeah, right. Exactly. Yeah, that's my way of saying that. And so I feel that anybody that walks into my office, if they do want to talk to me about God, if they do want to have their conversation, they know it's a comfortable place to do it. It's it's acceptable to do it. Like I'll I'll I'll be that guy they can talk to about it. And in fact, just today, and actually, we got a subscriber today, Dale, because my one of my truck drivers, he hasn't been with us too long, just a few months. We started talking about God a little bit, and he started asking me about the podcast, and I was telling him a little bit about it and stuff. And he was telling me a little bit about where he's been going to church and how that all started for him. And I think it just like he knew he could talk to me about that. Oh, could because you could see it, like there's there's signs of it in my office and things like that, and just I think who I am that he knows, yeah, we can have that conversation. So yeah, he started asking me about the podcast, so he looked it right up on YouTube and he hit subscribe. And so, hey, well, we got one today, you know? So he might be, and he actually he texted me before I got here. He's like, Hey, when's the podcast start? I'm like, Well, I said it'll post tonight or tomorrow, it's not live. Yeah, but you could tell, like, hey, he he's excited to listen to it. So it's like, that's good. And, you know, and we had this great conversation, it was very short, but he said, you know, he he he's always been a believer, but didn't really go to church and was kind of not going to church because he felt he was a sinner. And so we got into that whole discussion about you don't wait until you got everything figured out before you start seeking Christ and going to church. I said, the Bible is a perfect example of that. Show me one person that God used in the Bible that was perfect. I mean, Jesus is the only one, everybody else, they've got their problems.

SPEAKER_01: 26:25

I tell people all the time, I said, the Bible says, for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. And that's not just, you know, not a couple of us, some of, you know, those people over there, those people over there. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Meaning we are striving. All of us who who accept Jesus and accept God as our Lord and Savior, we're all trying to get that understanding, to get that closeness to him. Because that's the that's that's my goal anyway. When I when I get up and I try to take to heart what some, you know, some people say, like I hear I hear pastor and I try to try to do or you know, emulate some of the things he says in his sermons and other people that I hear. And I try to feel close to him when I get up. I try to feel close to him in the middle of the day. I try to feel close to him when I'm leaving work. I try to make sure that he's included in my day and that he's included big, not just like, you know, an afterthought, like, oh Facebook, Facebook, Facebook. Oh God. Facebook, Facebook. You know. So we all have to realize that and not it's the whole thing about church hurt. Everyone gets hurt in church. And we're at some at some point church hurts ya. But you have to it's the the mature Christian that realizes that was a person. The church didn't hurt me, God didn't hurt me. That individual or that situation hurt me. You need to dust that off. And it and sometimes a church isn't right for you for whatever reason. You you can't hold it against all churches. That well, their churches full of hypocrites. How many churches have you gone to? And you know, so maybe that church was not for you. You find that church that's on fire, that's for you, that's welcoming, that you can you feel the presence of God. Because that's what it's all about, is getting a relationship with Him. It's not about, oh, the music is so great, and that pastor, he's you know, he's hilarious, or I always feel like he's talking to me. Or no, that's not what it's about. It's about hearing what's being said and realizing that that's God moving on your life. You leave that church and you use what's being said. Get back into your word. Because what should happen after church, in my opinion, when you hear a sermon, you've taken notes, you've taken, you know, you wrote down scripture or whatever, get in there and dig through it for yourself. Dig through it and see what you get out of it. Because you know what was preached, you remember what was preached, get in there, dig because he has fresh revelation for you. So just that's that's the way I am and what I try to do.

SPEAKER_00: 29:51

Yeah. That's what I was telling him. I said, everybody, I said, God wants to use every single person. I said, but you gotta you gotta figure out what what your path is. I said, and he's not waiting on you, he's not waiting on perfection. Yes, that's what we're striving to do. He wants you to be perfect, he wants you to be, you know, white as snow. Yep. But he he doesn't want you to wait to start serving. Say, because your purpose is now. You've already got it, you just got to figure out what it is, and you gotta you gotta start making it happen. Yeah, because I always tell everybody, I said, for me, I said always, I said, in spite of myself, I said, I am going to do the work of the Lord in the way that I think that he wants me to do it. I said, I fall short of the glory of God every single day. That's not gonna stop. That's not I'm not gonna say, well, since I said these three things today or I did these three things today, well, I'm gonna quit the podcast. No, that that's that's not what you do. You you have to take all those things, rise above them, try to keep changing, try to keep keep getting better. It's just a constant process. And there's just some things some people can or won't ever overcome, but still that should never get in your way of doing the work of the Lord, the doing what you're what what he's leading you to do. And and I think that's of course, that's one of Satan's biggest tactics is is to say you're not good enough to do this, you know, you're not worthy to be part of God's kingdom and and do his work. You know, just stay over here. Yeah, you know, you're not, you know, that's exactly what he wants from you. So that's just such an important part, I think, of anybody's, as you're saying, if you're you know, go to church for the right reasons, and when you leave, start thinking how you're going to apply it to your life so that you can share it with others. And just going back to the the work environment, you know, it it's you I I I think a lot of times you you don't have to, you don't have to preach to guys at work. Oh no. I think you just people will see it in you and they'll seek you out when they're ready to, you know, and and again, you don't have to be part of their little group, you don't have to stand there and you know, talk the way they talk and do what they do. You don't have to be able to do that. I have found that most people will really respect you. Even if even even if they're not in line with you, they will really respect you because they know like this guy he's different. Like, he's confident in himself. There's no sense messing with him, there's no sense trying to drag him into this or that or make him, you know.

SPEAKER_01: 32:53

Well, I had when I was when I was growing up in the church I used to go to, there was a lady. She was one of my church mothers, her name was Margie Sherrill. And she would go places, and it would be places where people were tossing around profanities and things like that, but they knew her. And so she would go into those places and their demeanors would change. There was no profanity, there was no, you know, it was this lady won't stand for it. She's, you know, whatever the circumstances were, it's it's like you said, her life spoke for itself. You don't, if you're living your life in that manner, it comes across and they're like, oh, okay, this this guy's not doing what we're doing, he's not in line with what we're doing. And out of a respect kind of thing, they just kind of say, like, okay.

SPEAKER_00: 33:54

And that doesn't mean you don't have to, you're still you still show them love, you're still just as friendly to them, you're you're still willing to work right alongside of them and work together. You don't take any of that away from them. Oh no. You know, but you just you are who you are, and I think that goes a long way. Like they'll see that that you know, you don't have to preach about it, it just comes through you. And like I said, then there can be little signs of, oh, hey, I I think if if I really needed to talk to somebody, I think I could go to that guy. I can go talk to him. I can talk to him. So maybe sometimes that dissolves a lot of that confrontation. Tears that wall down a little to where they can just come to you, or like you said, they change with your environment. You know, when you're around, everybody else behaves differently. Now, maybe when you walk away, everybody else goes, you know, but when you're in the room, everybody behaves a little bit differently. So maybe sometimes that that's you know, that's what you want to be.

SPEAKER_01: 34:52

And I think that's uh a cool thing to see, too, because there's a young man at my job that he doesn't go to church and he he makes it known that he doesn't want to go to church anymore because he's had difficulties or whatever. And there was one of those teeny tiny little Jesuses, and he had picked it up and he brought it over to my cart because he just naturally assumed it was mine. He said, based on our talks and stuff like that. I just assumed it was yours. I'm like, nope, it's not mine. I said, it is now because I'm not gonna go all over the plant looking for whose it is. Yeah. Sooner or later somebody will come by and say, hey, that's mine, but but it was it was just kind of neat that he something that tiny, something that small, and he he attributed it to me because of the dealings we've had. And so you don't have to, you know, I don't want to say knuckle under to the pressures of work or whatever. You can be who you are, you can you can say what you need to say in the name of the Lord. And everything doesn't have to sound like a sermon when you're talking to somebody. You can you can tell them like the same the same young man, I prayed for him because he said his situation was was rough and everything, and so I prayed for him, and it was it was something quick because I said I didn't want to embarrass you and I don't want to, you know, whatever, but if you don't mind, I'll pray for you because you told me your situation's rough. And so he was good with that. You can do small things for people that let your Jesus show, let that let your Christianity, that let your belief in what God is capable of show. And so I don't know, I just I go to work, I do I do my work, and every now and then somebody's like, Hey, can you do this? And like sure. And it just you get into conversations that that lend itself to demonstrating that that God is the head of your life and that you know he's important to you and that he's valuable. And it's I don't know. I just I just don't think that there's a moment where if you're talking to genuine people that you can't be genuine yourself, and then when you're when you're genuine yourself, if they have a need, if they have a hurt, that genuineness that you show, they will latch on to it.

SPEAKER_00: 37:43

Because when Well, look at it this way Christian or unchristian, who wants to work with somebody that always has a bad attitude, it's always complaining, it's always nervous, that's getting excited, doesn't have control of themselves. Nobody wants to work with somebody like that. But if they get if they have to work with you and you're calm and you have things under control and you're confident, they want to keep working with you. Like if there's a job to be done, it's like I want to work with that guy.

SPEAKER_01: 38:14

Yep.

SPEAKER_00: 38:14

And so the more that they work with you, you can't you keep doing things like that and you keep showing who you are as a Christian, and they start to get it. Like, oh, this is how you do it. Yep. I don't want to work with that clown over there because it's gonna be nothing but drama. We're not gonna get it, you know, we're it's it's it's just not gonna it's gonna be stressful. We're not gonna I don't want to go with that guy. I want to go with this guy over here that's you know talks to me and explains things to me, you know, help helps me learn, yeah, especially with a lot of younger guys. Oh, yeah, you know, because a lot of older guys, they want to take these young guys and they want to talk down to them and they want to make them their treat them like they're stupid.

SPEAKER_01: 38:56

Yeah, treat them like they're stupid. Like a whipping boy or whatever. It's like like no, and you have to and the the young men of today, they're looking for something. Even if they don't know it. Yeah, I mean, I don't know who said it, but each and every one of us has a a hole, and that hole is God-shaped. So it's not nothing can fill it.

SPEAKER_00: 39:22

Nothing else can fill it.

SPEAKER_01: 39:23

Nothing can fill it except for God. And you can you can be rich, you can be poor, you can be black, white, whatever. That hole can only be filled by the one and only God. And so it it makes uh it makes you feel unique. And it it's it's kind of odd. I'm having a hard time putting it into words because it makes you feel unique to not be unique, because we're all we're all children of the most high God. But how you get there, how you you know, how he deals with you and your situation and everything, like you haven't gone through what I've gone through, but he's your God. I you I I haven't gone through what you've gone through. Still my God. And he will do for you what he'll do for me, he will do for that other one what he'll do for us. And it's just I'm unique because he loves me, and I'm I'm different than everybody else. And so that's the uniqueness. I'm different, but doesn't matter because he loves me the same. He loves me like I'm Nick, he loves me like I'm this other person. Doesn't matter. And it's it's a wonderful thing to be uniquely ununique.

SPEAKER_00: 40:50

I get it, yeah. Yeah, that's good. Yeah. So with this topic, I think we need to discuss obviously, for me, when when I read scripture and when I read the words of Jesus and what he's instructing people to do or not to do, for me, the one that always hits me the hardest is of all of all the sins is if if you deny my father in the face of whatever, you know, you could do this, you could do that, or you know, it's sin is a sin. But the but the but the biggest one is if you deny me and my father, especially in the face of ridicule and in the face of confrontation, then there is no there is no hope for you. So if in the face of confrontation, if you decide like if somebody would say, oh well, what are you a Christian? You'd be like, oh well no.

SPEAKER_01: 42:10

It's like what made you say that? Like, you know, buddy.

SPEAKER_00: 42:15

You know, when we're talking about this issue, that's the one place you don't want to find yourself in.

unknown: 42:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 42:23

Because that you're denying, you're denying God.

SPEAKER_01: 42:26

Yeah, Joe, it's the very same thing that uh Peter found himself upset, I mean, gravely upset that he had done it not once, not twice, but three times. When he said he wouldn't. Yeah. And if you think about us as we go through our days, not necessarily you and I in particular, but people go through their day that are Christian at church and then get out into the world, and you're not really sure that that's who they are. And if some they were to have a conversation with somebody, the number of times that we don't behave as though he's our Lord and Savior, and we don't behave as though we know him. And so it's probably way more than three times. So so we should take a note from Peter and just any time that we're not doing something to the glory of God, we need to repent immediately.

SPEAKER_00: 43:31

And we're putting it, yeah. We're giving the glory to something else.

SPEAKER_01: 43:34

Yeah, we're putting and and not even like, you know, letting the enemy win, so to speak. Because sometimes the enemy doesn't have to touch us. He's I I liken him the enemy to one of those old-time magicians that had the plate trick where like judging all the plates and everything. Yeah. Well, he will spin the plates, and then once one's he's got one going good, he'll he'll leave it. And that's where he is with us. He doesn't always have to bother you. He doesn't always interrupt your life. He'll put something in front of you and it's there in front of you for as long as you decide to to entertain it. And we have to get away from letting what he presents to us seem entertaining because there's so much joy to be had just in i in participating in the will of God. Just there's There's some things I want to try and do. And I'm trying to have God bless me for it and make a way for it. And if He does, it'll be great and it'll be something I can be really proud of. If not, He will bless me in something else. But we always need to, whatever, whatever we're trying to do or endeavoring to do, we need to do it all to the glory of God. Because whatever whatever we're trying to do, He's the one that's going to bless it, multiply it, make it beneficial. So I don't know. I always start saying something and then I get halfway to the end of it and I kind of like cut myself off, but I I just I I get filled up trying to do what he wants me to do. And I get I get conflicted with with some things. I get uh get ahead of myself sometimes with a lot of stuff. And so things that I plan don't necessarily go the way I want them to. And then I have to go back and I have to fall on my knees and say, okay, God, that didn't work out quite right. Let's try this again and put you behind it and see what see what happens. So and that's that's the things we do when we fall short of trying to meet our obligation to him as far as you know leading people to him.

SPEAKER_00: 46:31

Yeah. Yeah, it it's I I you said in the very beginning, this is you know, this is not for just this is not instruction just for pastors or for lead people in the church. This is for everybody, you know. You know, just e even the person that just gave their life to the Lord yesterday.

SPEAKER_01: 46:54

Now you gotta let somebody know. Yeah, that yep. And you and you don't have to, and like I was saying, you don't have to go out and seek people because that's what God does. God will put them in your way. But He will He'll put He'll put people in your path and you you do what you do, be who you are. Don't shy away from the fact that God and Jesus are your Jesus is your Savior, God is the Lord of your life. Don't shy away from that because somebody wants that, somebody needs that. And so when He puts that person in your path, be the person you are because you turned your life over, but God saw who you were. And He knows that the things that Nick has gone through is gonna help somebody in a certain area. The things that Dale's gone through are gonna help somebody in a certain area because we have different experiences. Take your experience, treat people the way the way you would like to be treated, and never, never, ever, ever feel like I can't bring this up to them because they're gonna think I'm weird. I can't I can't say what I can't say what I feel God is calling me to say because they're gonna take it wrong. Be who you are and let let the chips fall where they may because we may, you know, we're planting water, but it's God that does the increase. So just do your thing. Just be you and just be humble while you're doing it, give all the glory to God and Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 48:42

And as I said, just try to start thinking about how can I be useful. Yep. And don't wait until you know you think, well, I've got everything figured out, and no.

SPEAKER_01: 48:54

Yeah, you're never gonna have it figured out. Absolutely not.

SPEAKER_00: 48:59

Yeah, and not everybody's meant to be a pastor, not everybody's meant to be in kids' ministry. You know, not you know, you're built for something. Everybody has their unique gifts that they're designed for, they have a special purpose, and so yeah, you can't sometimes maybe we can put more obligation on ourselves than what God is trying to grant us. Yeah. You know, because sometimes when you're on fire, you want to, like a rocket ship, you just want to, you know, go straight to the moon with it. But you have to take it step by step, day by day. Absolutely and it's it's not about look at me take off. Yep. You know, it's about it's you know, it's not about showing off and and ha having everybody give you attention and think, oh wow, you know, they've look at look at everything they're doing. You know, don't, you know, your obligation isn't necessarily to do as much as you can do so everybody will see how much you're doing, and then you think, well, then I will be fulfilled. No, it's try really try to find your true path with the Lord. Because it may be one particular thing that he wants you to do and stick and stick with it, you know. It's it's it's almost I always go back to Cain and Abel with, you know, we'll never know why God favored Abel's offering over Cain's. But my guess would be that maybe Ave Abel's wasn't as flashy, it might have not it might not have been as abundant, but it was exactly what God was calling him to do, where Cain tried to go big. Oh, yeah. You know, he tried to really do something, but it wasn't in his heart to give it to God. He just wanted to, he might have been just trying to best his brother. We don't know. But whatever his offering was, it wasn't what God was looking for, and it wasn't what was in his heart. He he was after something else.

SPEAKER_01: 51:08

I feel like it wasn't to the degree God wanted it either.

SPEAKER_00: 51:11

It was and you're right, maybe it wasn't to the degree. It was like it was a half-hearted attempt.

SPEAKER_01: 51:17

It was secondary. It's like I'm gonna give him these, these are really good.

SPEAKER_00: 51:21

So yeah, right, yeah, and kept the good stuff for himself. Yeah. So it could have been, yeah, it could have been a lot of different things, but that's the point, is that you really want to in your heart truly find out what your mission is and what God wants you to do, and then when you find it, you know, stick with it. Yeah. And it's not, it's not always going to go as as you plan. You know, you think like, well, if God wants me to do this, then everything should just go really smooth. And why should I have any obstacles? If this is what God wants me to do, why why am I getting pushback? Why, why am I not getting over the next hump in this destination? And so you think, well, maybe that's not what I'm supposed to do. That's not necessarily true. You know, it's you're growing, you know. He's he's trying to grow you along this journey and make you who you are, and you know, and we're all we're all not finished with this until the very end. You know, we're none of us, you know, yes, if we're all lucky, we get to retire from our jobs.

unknown: 52:23

You know.

SPEAKER_00: 52:25

Yeah, which gets more impossible by the uh by the day, but that doesn't mean when we retire from our jobs that we retire from our our mission with God. You know, that's something that carries on until until the day calls on us. So it's that obligation, just knowing that, yep, once, you know, once I once I find what I'm supposed to be doing, then you know, try to get give it your all and stick with it through through the tough times and don't let anybody try to talk you out of it or discourage you, or you know, if you really truly know it in your heart, as you said, it might not be in this church, it might be in another church. You know, it might be with a different group of people. You just never know. But yeah, you gotta everybody has that, everybody has that obligation to find, find, you know, their relationship with God and what he wants them to do. Absolutely. And every once in a while, yeah, you gotta, you gotta have that confrontation. And this is gonna spill over into our next episode, Dale, because we're gonna go from, you know, we've talked about you know how hard it is to have these confrontations. Well, we're gonna talk about some guys in the next episode where guess what? They ain't afraid of confrontation at all. They're they're you know, they have no problem with that whatsoever, and it'll be kind of a a different, a different outlook on this whole thing.

SPEAKER_01: 53:53

Looking forward to it.

SPEAKER_00: 53:54

Yeah. So any any final thoughts? Wisdom?

unknown: 54:00

Not from me.

SPEAKER_00: 54:01

Not from you, huh?

SPEAKER_01: 54:07

Not really. Just to say to people that be confident when you're when you're out and about. Because I know a lot of people have anxiety and we talk about that all the time, or quite a bit anyway. A lot of things create anxiety, but those are just uh devices for the enemy. You can overcome anything, you can do anything you want to do if you're doing it to the glory of God, because He He works miracles in your life daily. And so I would say if you're a new Christian, if you've been a Christian for a while, and you just don't know how to approach people, you don't really have to approach them as much as you have to live your example. They'll see it. Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works and glorify your father who is in heaven. That's that's all you gotta do. Just live your life. So and then the opportunities come.

SPEAKER_00: 55:30

Yep. All right, very good. Well, you want to praise out?

SPEAKER_01: 55:35

Sure. Father God, we thank you for uh allowing us just to unite here today. And just we enjoy you, Father God. Just uh the aroma of your your presence is overwhelming at times. Just lead us and guide us in the direction you would have us to go. Um this was a perfect thing for me because I enjoy talking about you. And so I pray, Father God, that you just reach out and touch someone or anyone, just let us be thankful and mindful of those opportunities that you have put in front of us, and we use those opportunities to lead people to you and not look down on people, not to criticize their situations, but be a beacon of what you are willing to do in our life. We pray, Father God, that Nick and I put um traveling mercies as we leave here. We just pray everything in your blessed Jesus Christ's name. Amen. Amen.