Flipping The Coin On Judas Iscariot

Thirty pieces of silver sounds like a payday until you realize what it bought: a kiss in the Garden of Gethsemane and a choice that still shakes people today. We go straight at Judas Iscariot, not to sensationalize betrayal, but to understand the slow drift that can happen when money, pride, and disappointment start steering the heart.

We talk through what Scripture does and doesn’t say about Judas, including the meaning of “Iscariot,” why he may have been the outsider among the disciples, and the early red flags that show up long before the Last Supper. Along the way we wrestle with a question that hits modern life hard: is Jesus only a wise teacher we can quote when it’s convenient, or is He Lord and Savior who gets to confront what we want to keep?

From there we compare Judas with Peter and Doubting Thomas, because both men fail, yet neither man stays in despair. That contrast opens up the bigger theme of spiritual warfare: Satan doesn’t need you to worship him, he just needs you to believe you can’t go back to God. We also tackle the question people keep asking around Easter and Holy Week: if prophecy foretold betrayal, is Judas punished for fate, and what does repentance really require?

If you’ve ever felt “too far gone,” or you’ve been sitting on the fence with faith, this conversation is for you. Subscribe, share this with a friend who needs hope, and leave a review so more people can find Growing Together, then tell us: when you mess up, what helps you run toward God instead of away?

Transcript

Welcome And St Paddy Snow

SPEAKER_00 0:40

We are back, ladies and gentlemen. Episode number eleven of Growing Together. Think about that, Dale. Episode eleven.

SPEAKER_01 0:50

Episode eleven. That's impressive. Right along.

SPEAKER_00 0:54

Yeah. Yeah. I looked at that today. I'm like, all right.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

They go so quick. You don't realize how fast they go.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Yeah. And I was thinking today, you know, if we do a whole year, we're around 50 episodes. And I think, we've done eleven. That's great. Oh my God, we've only done eleven. I gotta figure out 40 more of these. How am I gonna come up with 40 more of these?

SPEAKER_01 1:19

Like I always seem to fall in your lap, though.

SPEAKER_00 1:21

Yeah. And so the key is you don't look that far ahead, just one at a time. Just keep on getting inspired, just trying to keep up, keep coming up with good things to talk about, and God will take care of the rest. Yes, he will. So yeah, I'm very happy about that. And if we're in the great state of Ohio, Dale, and uh today is St. Paddy's Day.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

Yep, got my green.

SPEAKER_00 1:46

Well, yeah, but uh wouldn't you know it? We had a green Christmas. Yeah, and we had a white St. Paddy's Day. Can you believe the snow out there?

SPEAKER_01 1:54

Yeah, I'm not real happy about that now.

SPEAKER_00 1:57

We went from sixty something degrees yesterday to twenty one today.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Oh, I'm aware.

unknown 2:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

I went outside with my winter coat on today instead of the little summer summer jacket I was wearing. So yeah, I'm well aware.

SPEAKER_00 2:20

Yeah. So they talk about the luck of the Irish and pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Yeah, right. Skeptical. Are you kidding me?

SPEAKER_01 2:28

Yeah, I'm very skeptical.

SPEAKER_00 2:31

No such luck here in the state of Ohio. And spring, first day of spring's Friday. And here we are. It's like we had another mini blizzard. That is not a dairy queen mini blizzard.

SPEAKER_01 2:42

No. That I would appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 2:44

Yeah, that'd be all right. The wind has been something else. I mean, we've just had I seen a trampoline out in the middle of Trenton Avenue. All kinds of stuff. I mean, yeah, it's it's been uh it's been interesting last year.

SPEAKER_01 2:57

I have a trampoline story. We have a little trampoline for Elsa, and it's up against our sheds, right? And that wind that went through took it clear down the street, about four houses down.

SPEAKER_00 3:12

They can fly.

SPEAKER_01 3:13

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

Yeah, and then it's dangerous to think about, too.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

Yeah, and then there's me and Elsa trying to drag it back to the house, which was another story. But we're gonna start a GoFundMe for Elsa because her her trampoline was destroyed. Yeah, so I'm kidding about the GoFundMe, but still she's she was not happy.

SPEAKER_00 3:34

About took her too, though. Well, maybe you'll get lucky, there'll be another windstorm and it'll blow one back into your yard.

SPEAKER_01 3:40

I mean just blow a new one in. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:44

One I saw on Trenton Avenue, nah, it's done for.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

Yeah, that's what happened to ours. It broke a couple of posts broke off, and I'm like, sweetheart, I can't, you know, we can't do anything with those, so it's done. We'll just have to get you another one. But yeah, I said, well, at least you didn't blow away. Because there was a couple of times we're outside and we're trying to bring it back in the house where it looked like it was gonna try and lift her up, and she's like, let's go inside. And I'm like, Yeah, okay, yeah, we'll we'll go.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

Yeah, not good.

SPEAKER_01 4:13

No.

SPEAKER_00 4:15

Well, I think we better get right to it tonight because I think we got a lot to unpack with this one. Oh, absolutely. And talking about, you know, the luck of the Irish, finding the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Well, this guy we're gonna talk about tonight. The subject of this conversation, the title is flipping the coin, and we're gonna talk about Judas Iscariot. And of course, perhaps he thought he was going to find fortune at the end of the rainbow with 30 pieces of silver. Yeah, a pot of not a pot of gold, but a pot of silver, and we know how that worked out for him. So, yeah, a lot to unpack. Last episode, we talked about John the Baptist and just how fervent he was trying to be a leader for God, to bring as many people he could to God, and of course, preparing the way for Jesus. And so flipping the coin, if you go to Judas, I think we have the exact opposite here. And if we want to dive just into a little bit, I've got a little bit of history to start it off. I always try to, you know, the Bible doesn't tell you everything. And so sometimes you get very little information about people and where they come from and you know what what's happened in their life to this point. And of course, when you get into biblical things, yes, there's there's a lot of biblical studies out there. Not that they're all true, not that they all have been based on fact, but you know, like any good scholarly study or scientist, somehow they still come up with these interesting theories just based on the knowledge that we have. I think one interesting thing to note is according to biblical study, when you talk about Judas Iscariot, his last name has several different meanings. Now, most people agree that Iscariot just signifies him as where he came from. And from what I've read, twelve of the disciples came from Galilee. He's the one disciple, he's the outsider who actually came from Judea. So they're saying, like, Iscariot could mean that it was just because there's a lot of Judas in the in the Bible. He's not the only one. So sometimes you have to you know designate and you know, and keep it, you know.

SPEAKER_01 6:44

Yeah, kind of like Simon Peter.

SPEAKER_00 6:46

Yeah, yes. So there's that explanation for his last name. Now, there's other people who've tried to hint at the fact that Iscariot possibly has meaning Roman meaning a dagger or assassin, and that's why he was given that last name. So it might not have been his last name during his lifetime, but he was actually given that based on what he's gonna do, or his fate, basically. So I read that one, and it like I said, it's not really founded on anything solid, it's just one idea that has kind of stuck with some scholars and you know, yeah, people that are, you know, historians of Roman times, biblical times.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

Little bit of conjecture on their Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:34

So it's just kind of interesting how I think people can create a story out of anything, you know, if given enough time and put it trying to put enough things together.

SPEAKER_01 7:45

Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 7:48

So he's if we start getting into the Bible and what we do know, because people are a little bit if he did in fact come not from Galilee but from Judea, people are kind of like, well, how did Jesus find him? Like how did if he found the other twelve, how did how does Judas even come into the picture? You know, so that there's a little mystery there as to how he actually comes into the picture to begin with.

Iscariot Origins And Missing Backstory

SPEAKER_01 8:24

Well, the Bible doesn't make it clear, but I think also that I found interesting is that before he even betrays Jesus, that he's introduced in the book of Matthew anyway, as Judah Judas Iscariot, he who betrays Jesus. I'm like, before he's even done it, that's how they, you know, that's how they write it up. And I'm like it's almost like, you know, a destiny type of thing. Yes. Yeah, it was prophecy. But and we'll get into that later about prophecy and destiny and all that stuff. But they don't go into detail about how Jesus ran across him or any of that. And I really wish that there were, you know, a a an a deeper account of their interactions. I know he traveled with him for three years, yeah. But there's no like before, you know, when he met him, any kind of like Yeah, we don't have his birth certificate.

SPEAKER_00 9:29

We don't have you know, you don't have all those things to try to go back and and follow their lives and you know you don't know anything about their childhood, you don't know.

SPEAKER_01 9:36

And I believe there's reason for that though, too, because it I think that is for our faith as much as anything, because then if you you know how he came to be and uh with Jesus and all the things that transpired as he was developing with Jesus, then you have an opportunity, I think, to be more skeptical or have a have an opportunity to to view it differently as opposed to just taking it for what it was. And I don't know, I just think that God if God gave us every single event that happened in the Bible, do you realize how much bigger the Bible would be now?

SPEAKER_00 10:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

I'm like so It would be exhaustive, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:23

Yeah, just to get through the facts.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

It's inspired by God, and so he's like, this is what you can handle. If you could handle all of this, then he would put all of it.

SPEAKER_00 10:34

Yeah, but this is what keeps it inspirational. This is what keeps faith moving.

SPEAKER_01 10:38

Yeah, this is all you need.

SPEAKER_00 10:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:40

You listen read this, and then some of that's gonna have to be faith, some of that's gonna have to be reading, some of that's gonna be have to be inspired by God whenever you're you know in your private space with him, he's going to reveal things like that to you. So God knew what he was doing. He's like, I'm not gonna lay this all out. Where is your faith? I gotta tell you everything that happened.

Early Red Flags About Money

SPEAKER_00 11:05

So um but agreed. Yep, yeah. Now there's early signs of trouble. Now, I would think that if you knew what type of guy this was from the beginning, you would not put him in the position to handle all the money. Would you not? I mean, you wouldn't put your faith in somebody to handle finances if you thought that they might be crooked, that they might, that they might want to skim off the top. But apparently, according to the Bible, this is happening. Like they are already looking at Judas as we've given him this responsibility to take care of the finances, and the dude's skimming off the top, like he's a thief. So that's clearly stated in the Bible that he he he doesn't have the best intentions, and he is not being completely, you know, he's not he's not handle his job with integrity here. And then there there's the story when the lady wants to wash Jesus' feet and cover him in perfume. The one person that protests this is Judas, and he gives the reason that you know how much this perfume costs? Like instead of instead of wiping Jesus' feet with it, we could have sold this and added it to our finances or given it to the poor. Why are we why are we wasting money? Why are we doing this? See, and that's so he's right here, like I said, there's early signs of trouble because he's not seeing the mission. He's not getting it. Yeah. And all he can think about is money.

SPEAKER_01 12:46

Yeah, and that's like I think we discussed before that he doesn't call Jesus Lord or Master or any of those titles of like divinity. He calls him rabbi, like teacher. So in my mind, and like I said, it's just as I would see it, that is already a sign that he doesn't fully believe that Jesus is who he says he is. And so he didn't he didn't have as much of a problem uh betraying him as he should have had, because he doesn't look at him as King of Kings and the one sent to redeem our sins or any of that stuff. He looked at him more as a an instructor, a teacher, someone who's going to educate you know the masses. And he was looking for a sword in hand ruler. He was yeah, he was looking for somebody that's like, we're going to storm the Roman people and and restore, you know, whatever. And when he didn't get that, I feel like he he may have been, and like I said, this is just me, may have been like upset that it wasn't going to go the way.

SPEAKER_00 14:05

He could he could definitely have been in that crowd on Palm Sunday chanting Hosanna, but then not really accepting it. But also, you know, a week later yelling, crucify him.

SPEAKER_01 14:18

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 14:19

Because yeah, they thought this is not what we held you up to be. This is this is not what we planned, and this is not what we were hoping for. Yes, so there is that conjecture that he's hoping Jesus is going to be that on-earth ruler that is gonna completely wipe the Romans out and you know, they're gonna take back control. Yeah, and and just be a ruler here on earth. He was completely missing again, he was completely missing the point in the mission. And so therefore, as you're saying, you know, he's calling him teacher and rabbi, so his heart's not fully in it. And we we all have plenty of teachers in our lives. You know, we all grow up and go to school, you know, and some teachers you love, some teachers you don't love. And when you're young, sometimes it's hard to see why. Why is why do we have to keep learning? Well, I'm never going to use this stuff when I grow up. Why do we have to learn all this? And so sometimes when you look at somebody as just a teacher, you just take what you want from it. So if you're willing to learn, yeah, you'll you'll eat it up and you'll consume it and you'll you'll absorb that knowledge and you'll use it as you see fit. But you're almost choosing what you're going to learn and take in and what you're not going to based on your personal feeling, your personal interest, what you think is important to your life and to those around you. Where Lord and Savior, you're not.

SPEAKER_01 15:55

You're invested.

SPEAKER_00 15:56

You are invested. You are completely invested. And and there's no other, there's no other teacher. Exactly. You're not learning from anybody else. You're not, you're not gonna, you're not gonna hear his word and then hear somebody else contradict it and go, well, maybe he's right. Maybe he he's maybe he's got a point here. No, if it's Lord and Savior, it's that's it.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

That's it.

SPEAKER_00 16:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:23

And you don't you don't want to hear from anybody else. It's like I'm following this, I'm not going to be swayed. Because then it becomes a belief. And like I said, I've said before, people, if your belief can be swayed by somebody saying, you know, one or two things to you, then it was really just an opinion. And so he it when you decide to make somebody lord and master, that's your belief. That is how you're going. I don't I don't think he had that. No. I think he thought of him as one of many teachers. And I think that might have been why he he decided, well, I'm not sure he is who I think he is, so I'm just gonna make a little money and get out of here.

SPEAKER_00 17:12

Yeah. Yep. It's a good, it's a good gig. It's a good gig for a while. Yeah, you know, it'll get me from point A to point B. Exactly, you know, taking it. And and if as long as everything goes the way I see it going, like, yeah, I can hang with this guy. Yep. You know, maybe he's the answer that I'm looking for, not the answer to the world, not the savior of the world, not you know, my Lord and Savior. Yep. And I think a lot of times that's where people get stuck in their search and on their, you know, road to finding the relationship with the Lord, is that I think sometimes people do look at it as just they look at him as a teacher. They can they can read scripture, and I'm talking, and I'm not talking about people that are actually been saved in Christians and believe that he is our savior. I'm talking about people that are unsure. Unsure, they're they're giving it a chance, they're looking in that direction, they're trying to find an answer for their life, and they can say, well, yeah, you know, Jesus has a lot of good points, but there's a couple of things in here that I personally don't agree with. Like I personally think that I should still be able to do this, I just should still be able to do that. I don't believe that, you know, and you can pull politics into all of these, all of this discussion. Not that we will, but you can. And so a person can be like, yeah, he's got some good points, and but I don't know. Like I I I don't I can't invest in all of it.

SPEAKER_01 18:51

Yeah. Well, it's like um some people are like I don't know how you put it, they uh they have their idea, they don't want to give up certain certain things to listen to something he says. Like when they say that one sin is not not greater than another sin. And they're like, well, at least I'm not, you know, at least I'm not doing this. And they think that that's okay to go on, but that's not because whatever sin you're doing you don't worry about someone else's sin. Whatever sin you are committing, and we've all committed sin, we will all continue to commit sin, you must turn from that. And that's the difficult thing for some people is like, well, he says a lot of good things, you know. Love thy neighbor as thyself, all those things, nice things, but I still want to do this. I want to still do a you know, I might do B and C for a little bit, but this A that he's trying to make me give up, I I really rather kind of try and hang on to it. And so they think it's too difficult. And because it's too difficult, then I'll take the option of it's not true. If it's too difficult, then it's not true.

SPEAKER_00 20:14

Yeah. And I or they'll just take the option of, like I said, yeah, I Jesus is a great a great where you want to say a great man or a great teacher. But I'm not gonna follow him. It's just not, you know, it doesn't line up with how I see the world. How what makes me comfortable? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:36

I think people don't see him as convenient sometimes.

Teacher Or Lord A Heart Check

SPEAKER_00 20:40

Yeah. Yeah. Like, you know, they're just like, yeah, got a lot of good things going on. Like they can they can get through the easy ones, but when it gets them to the harder stuff that really convicts them, then it's more of a struggle. And to that point, I just want to say that, you know, there's probably another thing that Judas is missing the boat on, is that let's face it, he's there's other disciples that are imperfect, and there's other disciples that will do things that are could have been just as critical. When we talk about Peter, you know, Jesus tells him, You're gonna deny me three times. Oh no, Lord, I you know, I would never you know deny you. And of course, what does he do? Three times he denies him, and the second that he does it, he knows and he repents, and he repents. So the attitude that you take toward your shortcomings to your sins has a lot to do with your salvation. You know, you when you sin, you either feel conviction or you don't. And you either make that decision that, okay, yep, I know Lord, I'm not perfect, and I know I keep messing this one up, but I'm gonna keep looking to you to try to overcome it. And I'm gonna repent of it, and I'm and I'm gonna you know move forward and I'm gonna keep walking with you till we get there. Where Judas never gives himself that opportunity. And we have doubting Thomas as well.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

Oh, yeah, I was gonna talk.

SPEAKER_00 22:36

Yeah, so we have. Him too. Do you want to talk about doubting Thomas real quick?

SPEAKER_01 22:41

Well, I the thing I find about doubting Thomas is that he wasn't he was told at the end, you know, you believe because you have seen. Blessed are they those who believe and have not seen. So even though he had to had to see for himself.

SPEAKER_00 23:02

He had to put his fingers in the wound.

SPEAKER_01 23:05

He's like, fine, if that's gonna make you believe, if that's gonna, if that's what's gonna do it for you, then then have at it. But it's not like he he ostracizes him for doing it. He's still, you know, he's still welcome in the kingdom like anybody else, but he's saying, look, I understand that you needed to see it. You needed to feel it, you needed to experience it before you would say it's true. So you are you are here.

SPEAKER_00 23:37

But and and he still has a desire to want to believe it.

SPEAKER_01 23:41

Yeah, and and that kind of sets him on fire too, though. Yeah. When when that happens, because he's like, it's true, and then from there on out, it's a different story for him. But up until that point, he's like, I think, like anybody, like any of us, if it were to happen modern day and he were to do it, we'd be our our mind would be blown. It's like that that that that's not possible. And so you see him, and like, yeah, he looks like him, but you know, body double something I don't, you know, the king's secret tape tester, whatever. And so if you if that was you, I I gotta, I'm sorry, Lord, I gotta do it. I can you gotta show me the show me the wounds, let me put my hand in your side, whatever. And so he lets him do all that stuff because he wants him to believe. He needs that factual account that will not turn back. And so ta doubting Thomas is important because he's convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt because he touched, he felt, he experienced all of that, and now he's he's not turning around. He's like, I know I sa I saw him and and I have more conviction now. But Jesus was, you know, saying it's great that you have more conviction. But those that don't get to see this, that don't, you know, get the experience you're getting, they believe. And so they they have just a little higher higher standing than you. But I needed you to believe that so you will run with it and and and spread spread the word with faith and conviction. And that's what it took for him to have it. But I don't think Judas had any kind of experience like that. I I thought a couple instances. I don't know if he was with like Peter when he walked on water or any of that stuff, but there have to be times when like Paul was struck down on the Damascus road and he had to have some idea of who Paul was to begin with, and then all of a sudden he's like, I know that guy, didn't he like murder Christians and and he's here with me? And he didn't have any of that kind of stuff. He he was self-involved, and he was like, I'm just dealing with me. I don't these other guys, they wanna they wanna believe it. That's fine. But I think my ship stops here because he's not the sword in hand ruler that I thought he was gonna be. And so I'm ready to just kinda get my money and get out. It's like as they say now, just I'm gonna get my bag and so he did that, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:44

You know, and as as we get to the end of Jesus' ministry, and we get to you know, the Last Supper, and we're trying to get we're getting into before the trial, you know, Jesus makes it clear to everybody that yes, one of you is going to betray me. And I think it's Peter that asked, asked him, like, well, you know, who is it? And he says, Well, it's going to be the one when I dip the bread in it, you know. And it's made clear in that moment that Jesus knows who it is. And it's almost clear in that moment that Judas knows that he knows. Yeah, like so it's like they both know, but you know, but Judas still sheepishly asks him.

SPEAKER_01 27:25

Yeah, because he's like, it's not me. It's not me like it's not me. It's like, yeah, you felt like you.

SPEAKER_00 27:30

Yes, you said it. You said it, yeah. Yeah. Uh yeah. So that had to be a that had to be a moment. Yeah. Well, and just going back to what Judas may have seen or did not see when you're talking about walking on the water and Jesus performing all these miracles. Judas had to be there. You would assume that he had to be there for some of this stuff. And yet it did not affect him. Even though we can see from the four gospels that there no matter what Jesus does, there's still some doubt as to how you can do this, how is this possible? You know, like they're still quite they're still questioning things, which I kind of get because I mean, for the Messiah to actually come into your presence, I can see how overwhelming it would be. And and like you're just like you can be just like, man, is this is this truly happening? Like, is this truly how and sometimes I think they're thinking, how am I placed in this moment, in this situation, to stand beside this guy? And maybe sometimes that was the doubt part of it. It's like, he chose me?

SPEAKER_03 28:45

Yeah, it's like why me?

SPEAKER_00 28:46

Like, I was this fisherman just hanging out on the dock, and he comes by and picks me up and tells me he's the Messiah and to follow him. And you know, and even though you start seeing things, it's almost like you can't believe what you're seeing, and you just think, how he chose me? How is this really possible? Yeah, and it's it's it's and sometimes you think that I'll think that about myself. It's like, Lord, how have you chosen me, little insignificant Nick, to share share your word and try to spread your word and try to spread your kingdom? Why me? Because I think I'm imperfect, I have plenty of faults, but yet, God, you still chose me, and I have felt his hand on me since I've been little, and I think, why don't you why don't you choose somebody better? Why didn't you choose somebody that was more perfect than I?

SPEAKER_01 29:41

More articulate, yeah, more you know, smart.

SPEAKER_00 29:44

That had more money, that had that could get more outreach, more positions, some you know.

Peter Thomas And Repentance

SPEAKER_01 29:48

Yeah. Why me? Why me? But I think we all do that. And I think what what happens is God says, you operate in an area where these influential people don't operate. You operate and your spirit is such that somebody sees you do something and they're like, Yeah, I expect I expect Nick to do something like that. And somebody who's not fortunate and they're fortunate enough to run into you, their life can be altered because they see the example that you're living. Not to try and, you know, exalt you or anything, but all of us have a gift and all of us have a have a calling, and it becomes really strange when we realize that God is calling us for something, because up until then, we're just living our lives. We're like, you know, I'm I'm gonna go buy a lollipop, get me some ice cream, yeah. And then all of a sudden it's like I'm your life has led to touching people, and people are like, You're a Christian, aren't you? And and it's it's just your light, it's just what you do. And so each and every one of us moves, you know, moves in our own little circles, and we affect that particular circle, and it branches out. And I don't think we seem to understand that. We're like every one of us from from the bottom to the top are like skipping or are like skipping stones. You just throw them out there on the lake and they hit, and then they hit somewhere else, and then you get these big ripples. And that's that's what happens is that we all affect each other and we're all connected in some way. Everybody affects everybody differently. And it's like I I told you before about Toby Mac and saying there's no uh no neutral.

SPEAKER_00 31:55

Yeah, that was on the Moving Mountains episode. Yeah, no neutral. I was just listening to that today, actually.

SPEAKER_01 32:01

But yeah, there's no neutral encounters, and so if you live your life to have positive only encounters, yeah, then you're you're going to change people. And people are going to say, I don't know what it is, but every time I run into this person, I feel really positive and uplifted because they've made it their mission to have positive only encounters. And it's not easy. No.

SPEAKER_00 32:27

Because you do have to go after the negative. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:30

You have to be willing to pull out beside the negative and and you have to be willing to absorb that too, because if you're positive and somebody's negative, there is a tendency for you to want to return some negativity. But if you've made it your goal to say, look, this is how I feel, and I'm going to do my best for you to to understand my point in love, you can you can affect a total.

SPEAKER_00 32:57

And that's funny because I just did that today at work with a certain situation, which I can't talk about it on air. But I did that very same thing today where I told myself I was confronted with a question, and I thought, okay, I can do one of two things. I can either lie and say I don't know, or and or I can tell the truth, tell it how I see it, and risk somebody being upset with me. But when I'm done, they're gonna truly understand how I feel about it and the fact that I'm trying to be fair, I'm trying to make a situation the best for everybody, and I'm truly looking out for the people who truly are invested in doing the right thing. And I just had to say if somebody gets upset because of what I have to say, well then I'm gonna bet that their interests are not truly what what you know is in the best interest of what we're trying to do here. Yeah, and I just have to live with that.

Barabbas And The Look Of Jesus

SPEAKER_01 34:10

Yeah. Well I I was also thinking about not to move on from doubting Thomas or anything, but I was also thinking that, like we mentioned Barabbas and how he was instrumental in setting Jesus before the people and to be on the cross and everything. And he kind of gets uh gets away with a little bit as far as I'm concerned, because he was a murderer. And nowadays nobody really like holds holds his feet to the fire for anything, you know. Of course, how could he just a criminal that was happy to escape? And he's like, yeah, get that that guy right there. Yeah, I don't know that guy. Yeah, great. Yeah, I don't know what he did, but yeah, take care. Yeah, and I'm like, yeah, but over time, us knowing who he was and what he did, we don't seem to be as as upset with him or just Pilate.

SPEAKER_00 35:14

Not to interrupt you, but in the Passion of the Christ, one of for some reason, one of my favorite scenes in that movie is when you know Barabbas and Jesus are standing in front of the crowd and they announce that they're gonna set Barabbas free. Well, you know, Barabbas at first he's laughing and he's carrying on, and then Jesus is just standing over there giving him this cold stare. Yes. And there's that moment for Barabbas where he looks at him like this guy's a big deal. Like, yeah, like I know who he is. I'm feeling the conviction right now, and it's real quick, but it's but he's like, oh, and then but then he turns and continues on being Braves, but for that split moment, he's like realizes what's going on, yeah. Yeah, he knows like okay, this is not your typical man standing over here, and I better just walk away now while I still got my freedom. Yep, you know, I just for some reason I really enjoy that, you know. Because the look that Jesus gives him is just almost looking at him like, okay, you've been freed. Yeah, so whatever you choose to do from this point forward, just know that I'm watching you. Yeah, like you know, I'm watching you.

SPEAKER_01 36:26

And it's to me, I'm like, that's like a a spot where he could have a little conviction himself, like maybe I better uh change my ways and not murder people anymore and just kind of try to be a farmer or something because that was a little spooky.

SPEAKER_00 36:44

Yeah, that was a little spooky, right? Yeah, it's the look he gives him it's like, oh boy. So yeah, I enjoyed that.

SPEAKER_01 36:51

I never really thought about it.

SPEAKER_00 36:52

Every time I watch it, I'm just like, it's gonna look at completely differently. He's looking at him like, okay, yep, this is your one chance, so make the best of it because you're gonna see me again. Yeah, you're gonna see me again.

The Kiss Betrayal And Guilt

SPEAKER_01 37:07

Yeah. Yeah, make the best of your time. Yeah, that's good advice for anybody. Uh-huh. Make the best of your time. But wow, that was not good. Smacked my Bible. It's like, don't do that. But we have an opportunity coming up in in the coming weeks to show Jesus exact exactly how much we appreciate his sacrifice on the cross. That's something I didn't think that the Judas did. He was for whatever reason, he was absolutely destroyed after he well. Let's get into that.

SPEAKER_00 37:50

Now let's follow up because we were talking about Peter and we were talking about Thomas and the faults that they commit and this, you know, and the things that you know they struggle with. Okay, so Peter denies Jesus three times, immediately repents. Thomas obviously, for different reasons, has his doubts, but he still he wants to have that faith. He has that strong desire. Now, Judas, he betrays Jesus, he does it for 30 pieces of silver. So in the garden, you know, Judas leads the Roman soldiers to the garden and he betrays Jesus with a kiss. As soon as he does it, in that moment, and maybe back up just a little bit further, when during during the uh Last Supper, they say that from the time that Judas took the piece of bread after it was dipped, that's when Satan entered him. So there's some conjection there about at what point is Judas really possessed, let's say, by the devil. But when he kisses him in the garden, it's apparently at that moment that he knows, like, oh, I've done the wrong thing here. He immediately feels the conviction for what he's done. So then he goes back to the Pharisees and he wants to give the money back. And he says, you know, you know, I've wronged this man, he he he should he's innocent, it's innocent blood, he should not die for it. Of course, what do they tell him? Well, what business is that of ours? What account is that of ours? You know, they don't care. They got what they wanted, they don't care anything about the fact that they drug him into this and made him the one responsible for it. They're just like, take your money and go. And apparently Judas leaves it there.

SPEAKER_01 39:47

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 39:49

But here's here's where it takes the bad turn. This is what I thought about today. So if Judas really in that moment felt a conviction that what he did was wrong, that he had betrayed Jesus, why doesn't he go to the foot of the cross and ask for forgiveness? Why instead does he decide to go find a place to end his life?

SPEAKER_01 40:17

What did I say? I have my own feelings about that because sometimes we can we can do something and we know we did the wrong thing. Like when we were little kids, we'd do something, and you know, mom says, you know, I made fresh batch of cookies, you know. Don't take cookie off the cookie jar. Yeah. Like, okay.

SPEAKER_00 40:39

So these are for these are for the guests.

SPEAKER_01 40:41

Yeah. Yeah. So you go to the cookie jar, she made your favorite cookies and tells you not to eat them. And so you go there and you eat the cookie, and you eat one, you eat two, you eat them all, and she comes back and who ate the cookies, and you're hiding out. Yeah. And he's he's kind of the same way. He knew what he did was wrong. He knew that he had betrayed a good man. And that I think is what he looked at it as. I have betrayed a good man. I still I You don't think he betrayed his savior. No, I still think he held to the fact that I have betrayed a good man because he reflected and he's it and like I said, this is all just how I feel.

SPEAKER_00 41:30

And we have to we have to all lay it.

SPEAKER_01 41:32

Yeah, because it's not laid out in any way, shape, or form. So in my mind, he said, I've betrayed a good man. I've I've betrayed someone who's only been good to me. Only, you know, if I go back through our three years of encounter, there was never a time when he wronged me at all. And yet here I am stabbing him in the back almost literally. And instead of going to the cross, he was overcome.

SPEAKER_00 41:59

Because I'm sure he knew he could have found out where he was being crucified. Yeah. And he could have made that trip. And and I think And laid it laid it at his feet.

Why Despair Blocks Forgiveness

SPEAKER_01 42:08

I think he was overcome with guilt, and that was might have been the heaviest point when Satan was on him. He's like, Yeah, you've done what I wanted. There he's never going to forgive you. What what do you do now? And he felt overcome. And because he didn't look at him as the savior, he just looked at him as a good man. He's like, You're right, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna recover from this, and he took his own life. Because if he at any point had believed Jesus to be the savior, he would have said, No, no, I've come to my senses, and I can go to the Father and get forgiveness. He didn't look, he didn't look at Jesus as as savior. He looked at him as a good man, and that's why and that's why he went the route that he went. And like I said, that's that's just me, but yeah, it's the only thing in my head that makes sense because if you know that you betrayed Jesus, you know what Jesus came for. And so knowing that and having been as close to him as you were, you'd be like, I've seen a lady touch the hem of his garment and be made whole. I've seen people forgiven of their sins, and he says, Go and sin no more. I am no different. I made a mistake, forgive me. But even at the end, I don't think he saw him as the savior. He saw him as a good man, a good teacher, and I can't I can't recover from this, and that's why he took his own life.

SPEAKER_00 43:43

Yeah, and that's so poignant because I think that's what Satan tries to do to all of us is get us to the point to where we will say life has gotten so bad, things have took such a bad turn that I can't go back to him.

SPEAKER_01 44:02

Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 44:03

That you know, I I can't I can't face him again. And so many people fall into that trap that whatever I've done, I can't go back now. You know, I have betrayed him, I have sinned against him, I've lost my relationship with him, I can't go back. And that's exactly what Satan wants you to do.

SPEAKER_01 44:24

Yeah. And that's why a lot of people associate themselves with Judas.

SPEAKER_00 44:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:29

Because they're like, I I'm the same as that guy. I, you know, I betray him daily.

SPEAKER_00 44:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:35

And there's there's no way that. you know, I'm shooting up or I'm, you know, I've wronged this person, that person, stolen here, you know, lied here. I'm unforgivable.

unknown 44:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:48

And Satan doesn't care whether you, let's face it, he doesn't care whether you have, he's not concerned if you have a good life. He's not concerned if you have a bad life. All he's concerned about is that you will say that you do not believe that if if Jesus was real, my life wouldn't be this bad. If Jesus was my savior, my life would be different. All Satan wants you to do is to deny him. And that's what it's all about. So even if you've had a great life, Satan doesn't care because he knows if if you haven't given your life to the Lord, even if you're even if you're not perfect, if you've still given your life to the Lord and you still look to the Lord every day as your savior, guess what? Satan loses. All he's interested in is what's in your heart as you saying, no, he's not my savior. Like or I'm going to deny him because my life isn't what I think God should have made it to be. And that's always that's all he's invested in.

SPEAKER_01 45:54

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 45:55

And as you're saying, that's why Judas doesn't go to the foot of the cross because he's been possessed by the devil and the devil has him convinced that he can't go back, that it's too late now. Even though he could have he could have when Jesus looks to the thief on the cross Jesus doesn't care about what he's done. He doesn't care about what crimes he's committed. It's all because he had that faith to say remember me.

SPEAKER_01 46:21

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 46:22

And that's all it took.

SPEAKER_01 46:24

And about the thief on the cross I don't know if we're going to get into that in any other later topics but he a lot of people are like well that he didn't do any works after that. He didn't you know he didn't get down I'm like you have to understand I feel anyway that he wasn't going to be doing any more works. This was the end for him. And so it's not like us when we surrender our life to him we have work to do. And you and faith is great but you have you also have work to do and because and he tells us that but he wasn't going to get to do any more works. And so he was like because of because of your faith because of you know you recognize that I and the father are one that you're going to be with me in paradise because by the same token the guy on the on the other side which a lot of us are like him if you're just taunting yeah yeah you think you're all that then just hop down off of this off this cross and because otherwise I ain't going to believe it. Yeah. And then he was like and save us too while you're at it if I did do that kind of thing you think I'm getting you down I might get this other guy down but you're going to hang there for a while and think about it. Yeah. That's why I'm that's why I'm glad that we are not you know not the savior because there are a lot of times when Jesus was going through what he's going through in his 33 years that if I meet these people and I am who who he is the outcome might be a little bit different.

SPEAKER_00 48:08

You're not saying forgive them they know not what they do.

SPEAKER_01 48:11

I'm like they know exactly what they're doing.

Fate Hell And Hard Questions

SPEAKER_00 48:14

Yeah it's going yeah they're going to get to people's elbow right yeah one for each and every one of them yeah and you were saying like people identify with Tudas I told you before we went on air you know just doing research I got onto a couple blogs and I'm just reading through things and seeing what kind of questions people ask about the subject and the number one question that I see or comment that I see is well surely Judas isn't in hell like he surely you know God would let him in heaven because it was his fate to do what he did. And so people can't understand if he was if he only fulfilled what he was supposed to do how could God possibly punish him to a life in hell so that that was the number one thing that I saw from people you know chiming in on on on the conversation and that can go a long way to uh blocking your faith as well trying to understand how God operates.

SPEAKER_01 49:34

We we have faith and we have questions and we have doubt and they all get mixed together sometimes. And we want to know all the answers. We want to know well if this happened you know why why didn't God do this or why didn't God do that or just questi question question question. And I'm not saying don't question God because sometimes when you're hurting enough and you question him he answers you. Been there. Yeah exactly and so have I like when I was 17 and and uh it's when I really really decided that God was true. I mean I've been in in church since I was a baby but when I was in s 17 and I'm in Dayton and I'm all by myself at a job core and I'm the only person from small town whatever and I start having doubts about things and I go to a church and they're all loving and and compassionate on me and I get baptized and that is where I felt him and it was like it it was like nothing nothing I ever felt before. It was like electricity it was like a flood it was like all these things I can't I can't even put it in the words and it was this church I can't even remember the name of it. But I'd been baptized before but it was like a sprinkling at my one of my churches and it just didn't feel like it took. It was like I did it for a show or something. And then this time I went up and they dunked me and I don't know it was it was the best choice I'd ever made and I came I came back to the job core and I was shaking and and I was overcome. I want to tell everybody about him and like tell them about this church that I can't even think of the name of it now. And we all get like that where we have this is he real is he really here operating in my life is he does he even know I exist and then you have a moment like that where everything seems like it was was lost or wasn't making sense and then it it makes sense and no you don't get all the answers but you know that he's there and you know that he's guiding you and you know that his his word has more answers and so you get into it and you pray for understanding and you pray for you know when you pray for obedience.

Obedience Neutrality And The Fence

SPEAKER_00 52:24

Yeah you know when I when I was as you when you were talking about being a kid it's like whenever I did anything that I knew I wasn't supposed to do as a kid it's you know I loved my mom and dad. So the love was there and the belief was there I wanted I wanted to be obedient and do what they told me to do and I knew why they were doing it but sometimes you just mess up. You you just do things you know you shouldn't do but that doesn't mean you don't want to be obedient. You know and I think when all these people are asking well surely you know he went to heaven he God wouldn't have put him in hell it's like well you're forgetting that you know this faith comes with obedience it's it's not just a wishing well you know to to have this you know relationship with somebody who's going to give you what you want out of life. Yeah he's and and if your life doesn't go that way then or if you see yourself as not being perfect where you're like well I'm not perfect so I'm not even going to try. I'm not even going to try to be obedient because there's just too much going on in my life and I'm never going to be able to correct it what's the point. So they don't they don't look at the obedience part of it as as part of the faith is that yeah you you you do have to follow his word and have it in your heart and try to do the best you can with it and try to every day do what you know God wants you to do. So yeah you can't you can't use Judas as an example to say well he betrayed the son of God so I guess I can yeah I can do whatever I want and it's not you know I didn't do that. You know and so surely you know Jesus wouldn't throw me to hell because I did something less than it's like no you're still missing the point. It's like as you said we we're we are taking the view that it's possible that Judas was not truly invested in the word and the faith and that Jesus Christ was his Lord and Savior that he was just a good man as you said a great teacher but he's not what I expected him to be and I let that get in the way of my intentions and I did something I really messed up. But in the end because I didn't follow him truly in my heart I didn't go ask for repentance I just turned the other way and ran because I felt like I had no choice. And therein lies I think the struggle for every human being and and that's the struggle between good and evil and the struggle that the Satan relishes in is like okay that's all I got to do. He knows that is just his one the only thing he has to accomplish is that you don't look to God. And you don't have to look that's the thing you don't even have to look to Satan. No because you don't even have to look his way it doesn't matter as long as you don't look to God. You've done the job for him. Yep and that's all he's looking to do. He can just sit back my wife's nephew Timmy what he always says is okay he he he likens it to you have Jesus sitting on the fence and you have Satan on the fence and I'm not good at tell retelling jokes or stories so I'll try to get this right but more or less the moral of the story is it's like you have a choice Jesus or Satan one or the other and you decide well I'm gonna sit on the fence for a while just going to sit over here and be comfortable I'll get to it I hear him talking to me but not ready. Yeah I know Satan's over here okay I know I probably shouldn't go that way but I'm just gonna sit here a while you get in car accident and die. Jesus disappears or he does appear and says I never knew you and turns around and person in the middle turns to Satan and Satan says come on let's go and you're like whoa whoa whoa you don't understand I didn't I didn't make my mind up yet and Satan says you don't understand he goes I own the fence so it's just like that that's sometimes that's how that's how you can't sit on the fence. You can't sit on the fence forever. You do have to make a choice you know and and sometimes people can take that the wrong way like you're trying to force them to believe that they think that's the attitude we're taking it's like we're forcing you to believe because we're scaring you with this idea that if you don't you're going to hell they didn't they're not looking at it as a simple fact they're not looking at it as they're not not the truth.

SPEAKER_01 57:16

Looking at the obedience portion of it. Because the obedience comes as as joy not as you know a lot of people look at the obedience as a chore as I I gotta do this I gotta do that. No the obedience is a delight the obedience is it comes because we love God. God loved us first and he loves us best. We can never we can never love God the way he loves us. And so the obedience is the least we can do to show him we love him. And but a lot of people don't understand that and so they look at it like I I gotta do this. I'm not allowed to do that. I can't no more fish on this day or what you know just things all those things whatever thing I want to do I can't do it now because God God will not let me in heaven and it's not a chore. Obedience is wonderful. Obedience opens the door for so many things because when you're obedient you there's the you first thing he gives you is peace. Yeah and it's like you don't stress over like you know I have a situation going on right now. And despite what's going on I have peace inside of me over it because I know when when the final when the final horn blows it's going to be settled as God sees fit. And so when you know that kind of stuff you can have tremendous peace because you're like I'm not worried about it. It it's going to work itself out whether you know whether I benefit from it or don't benefit from it it is as God wants it to be and a lot of people they're like I can't I can't lay it down and and leave it all to him I can't I can't you know people are like they I were control freaks like I have so little control of what goes on in my day anyway.

SPEAKER_00 59:24

I can't I can't give him this you know I can't give him what little control I got left.

SPEAKER_01 59:28

Yeah and and it I understand it it's it was tough and is tough and continues to be tough. That's why you have to to die daily to your sin. It's not a one day thing it's not like give my life to magic man it's not yeah it's not like you know you jump on this on the snow slopes ski slopes and it's all downhill and piece of cake. It there's bumps and bruises that you know we're gonna experience that help us help us grow. So we have that but it's it's not difficult when you can let go. Because that and that's our problem is letting go because sometimes we're like I want to but if I let go then that means I don't have a say in how things run. And some of us don't like that. We like to have some say and with with God there is no some say turn it turn it over to me.

Control Letting Go And Daily Death

SPEAKER_00 1:00:33

Yeah and and and you know and and you think well maybe Judas just couldn't repent because if we if we go back into his his early story he's already got a lot of sin built up. If if he is stealing from the treasury if he is doing all these underhanded things in his position then in order to truly give himself to the Lord well then he has to repent of these things and he has to come to Christ with them and tell him like hey this whole time I've been taken from the top like you know and sometimes I think people feel that way. It's like if I do this then I have to expose everything. I have to bring everything to light that I've ever done and it's it's it's just too much of a burden. I I can't do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:23

Not realizing that look Jesus knows you're already done and he's the only one you have to answer to you don't have to tell you don't have to tell I the whole neighborhood you don't have to tell our scribes and Pharisees no right like this is what I did. Yeah no you he already knows you did it all you have to do is have a repentant heart and but once again that's Satan saying you can't be clean.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:46

Yeah look what all you've done to this point you you can't wash your hands of this you know you're already on this path you might as well just ride it out. Yeah yeah and that's exactly what he does and that's the way he behaves and it that quite possibly that is the it will answer people's question as to is he in heaven is he in hell well number one the Bible is the word and the truth and it says he's in hell so we have to believe that that's where he is even if in our hearts we're like I got a lot of questions about that and and you do think about that you're like well geez that's really that's just a bad rap you know that's just a yeah you know it's it does kind of get like man that that's just a yeah and you can it's just being dealt a bad hand you know and how is that possible? And you could feel bad for him but it's but there's a lesson if you really break it down and you look through it all there's a lesson to be learned out of all that and then you can see like oh okay yeah he he could have gone to the cross. He could have gone that direction no matter what he had done even he betrayed him and sent him to the cross himself he still could have gone.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:02

And if he had believed he was who he said he was he would have known that that was available. That that was available. And he's like I still got a door out of this Satan I can you know I can repent.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:14

Yeah and because that was always with the what the disciples and he was willing to go to the Pharisees and say hey I've screwed up take your money back. Why not go to the exact why not yeah he already went that far why not savior yeah so he went to the wrong people you know he he he went to the very people that were I'll just say were screwing him to get to Jesus. Yep and by the time he realized that he just he couldn't figure it out he couldn't figure it out that I shouldn't be going to the Pharisees right now because they're the the dirty people that got me into this mess in the first place. Exactly you know I need to go I need to go to even if he is just a teacher and rabbi because I I need to go to him.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:56

Yeah because even if you thought that that's who he was was just a teacher and rabbi he should have been the person that could have given you information as to okay I know I I I I did this wrong thing how do I fix it yeah and he'd seen again we can't prove it but you have to assume that he had already seen the level of forgiveness that Jesus had you know for the prostitute drying the drawing the line in the sand and he has already seen examples of this.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:26

So it is hard to fathom how he could have taken that misstep but then again when you think about it when you see it every day with people and how they will let Satan hold them down and control their lives and get them to believe that there is no way with all the things that I've done in my life that I cannot go to the cross. It's just too much. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:46

And perhaps see that's that's the trap that he was in for it to make sense to me I'm not talking I'm not saying everybody has to feel the way I feel but for that portion to make sense to me as far as his behavior at some point not see Jesus as who he was not recognize Jesus as Savior and only saw him as a good man that he betrayed and then realizing that he had spent all this time with him and never been you know never been you know wronged by him in any way shape or form only been shown love and compassion and it wasn't good enough for him. He said this silver's gonna make it better he said I'm gonna get like like I said before I'm gonna get out and get while the getting's good because he's not he's not who I thought he was.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:49

Well and he's already developed this lust for money. So it just played right into their hands. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:59

And it's a e it's an easy thing for Satan to provide. Because at at any point in in history money has always been an easy thing to get people to to turn from their beliefs or to go and do things that they wouldn't ordinarily do.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:18

And I can't equate it to today's money but I've heard that really it wasn't all that much. No it didn't equate to all that much.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:24

I'm not sure how much but I know it wasn't it was it was cheap to to to be to be fair like for for what he did, the magnitude that it had Mm-hmm. It was very cheap.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:39

And so Which m maybe says something else. Like he was willing to do it for 30 pieces of silver.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:45

So again Yeah, because he wasn't going to be able to retire on it.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:49

No. So again, his he couldn't have had much faith in the fact that Jesus was who he said he was. And that that to me is Or or perhaps he would have upped the Annie.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:58

Yeah. Because if because if you thought that he was the savior of the world and of generations to come and you're going to betray him. And you're going to betray him, you're going to want to your asking price is going to be a little higher. You're going to want to be able to retire and hide in clothes or something.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:15

Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:16

Because you believe that he is the savior of the world, there's no place I'm going to be able to do.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:21

Yeah, I'm going to have to I'm going to have to skip town and so I need a lot.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:28

And he's like, no, 30 pieces of silver. That'll do. Do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:32

Yeah.

Small Sins Grow Into Catastrophe

SPEAKER_01 1:07:32

30 pieces of silver, I'll give him a kiss on the cheek. You guys can have him.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:36

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:36

And I'm like, so I don't really feel in my mind that he felt that he was who he said he was. And and that makes that makes all of that make more sense to me that he didn't go to him and try to repent or anything. Because even after the fact, he still didn't think he was who he said he was.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:57

Right. Yeah. And just for all the listeners out there, again, you know, we're just giving people a lot to think about. What we say is definitely we can't say that this is truth. It's all conjecture and it's all just based on what we have read and what we feel in our hearts that possibly, you know, these are some things that if you're looking at your own life, exactly, and and you may have similar doubt or similar feelings of discontent in who Jesus is and where you're at in your life. We're pointing out some of the pitfalls of that. We're pointing out the fact that these are the tools that Satan will use. This is how Satan uses somebody. And Judas is that perfect example of this this is how Satan works. Like this is we don't get very many specific examples in the Bible of how Satan works, to where we see beginning, middle, and the end of how somebody's fate actually ends up in the hands of Satan. But here we do. So it's just, you know, whatever truly happened, I think we can piece it together enough to say, yeah, you you can put the pieces together and say that, you know. Yes, he he was he followed Jesus, he believed him to be a teacher, but did not accept him as his Lord Savior. Did not think he was who he said he was gonna be, and that's all Satan needed to hear. He didn't need to hear anything more. He didn't even need to Judas didn't say, Satan, I'm gonna serve you. No. He didn't need to hear that. All he needed to hear was I don't think this guy is who he says he is, and I'm not gonna believe it.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:46

And I'm willing to not from us either.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:48

Right. And that's that's the lesson to be learned, is that's that's where we are every single day, and that's where people are every single day. And if you take anything from this, it's that you know if you have any doubts, then that's okay. Thomas had doubts. Peter, you know, obviously in the heat of the moment, denied him three times, it's okay. Because they still look to the Lord to repent. So you always still have time to have that relationship with him. And you don't need to hang your hat on, I've done too much.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:27

Like, you know, I'm just never done too much for God to to clean it up.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:33

Yeah. So, you know, you just got you have to start, you have to put all that, you have to put all those things away. You have you have to just, if you're ready and you truly want to give your life to the Lord, then you just have to be willing to say, okay, we're gonna wipe that slate clean because Jesus can do it, and he's the only one that can do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:50

The only one.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:51

You know, Satan's keeping track of all the things to use to his advantage. Jesus isn't keeping track, he'll he'll wipe them clean the moment you come to him.

Spiritual Battle And New Believer Pushback

SPEAKER_01 1:11:03

And expect the moment that you decide that Jesus is your Lord and Savior and that you're going to follow him, expect some difficulties to because he he will come after the fresh Christian. Yes. The one that just turned their turned their life over to him, expect the boat to start rocking. Because he's like, Well, I gotta this person could potentially do this, or this person could potentially do that. It's like, yeah, I'm gonna hit him with something right off the bat, because he's his days are short and they're numbered, and he's like, I gotta get as many in the boat with me as I can get. So he he is coming after you.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:45

Yeah. And uh I don't know exactly when it's supposed to come out, but I know that Mel Gibson does have I believe it's finished, and we're just waiting on it for it to be released. But the resurrection of the Christ is going to deal with this very issue of trying to shed light on just how significant we are in this battle between good and evil. All these things that we can't see going on around us, but we are that significant, and we are being we are being fought over. Even if we think how could we possibly be have any purpose in God's plan? We you know, two two two middle-aged guys, Dale. We're middle-aged, that's take that. Yes. Two middle-aged guys from Ericksville. How could we be consequential to God's plan? And I think that's what this from what I've heard, that's what this movie is gonna try to like shed light on, is you're gonna he's gonna try to show people just you know, that battle between good and evil, what's really going on, and the fact that everything that's being played out, we have we we play a part in it. Yeah, you know, and so it's not exactly a a battle for humanity, but it's a battle between good and evil and God's kingdom and and Satan's pool and what he's trying to, you know, trying to pull God's kingdom down. And we're just caught we're just caught in the middle.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:16

I wasn't looking forward to that. I kind of am now.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:19

Yeah, well, I I listened to a couple interviews and I've heard him talk about it. And he just has this belief, you know, that yeah, you know, that there's this battle going on that we can't see. And that and and humans struggle with the idea of how are we even a part of this?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:37

Yeah. And people have difficulty understanding that he uses the weak to confuse the strong, and that he, you know, he uses the foolish to confound the wise. So when you're ever you're feeling a little foolish about your conviction or you're feeling a little mistreated, or you feel like you're really weak at some point, he's using your weakness for strength because he shows people through your weakness, through through the mistakes we make.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:12

And he can use he can use your compassion, he can use your love. He can use anything. The things that you think are w well-meaning.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:22

He can he can turn you because I'll I'll say this. He can use anything. Like I have a couple of pets, and it never fails that when I'm like upset or really low or really down on myself. It's not always a person that comes through and gets me on the right track with God. It's really funny because my cat will come and sit on my lap, and it's almost like she's she's crying with me.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:54

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:55

And I'm like, thank you, God. Because that's the first, that's the first thing I do is I turn to God and I'm like, thank you. So don't ever think that God's not concerned about you and that he won't use any means he has at his disposal to let you see him. Yeah. And that's what we have to do. We have to be willing to see him.

unknown 1:15:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:17

My one cat can look up at me and be like, Dad, I know you're tired. Let's spread out and take a nap.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:22

Yeah.

Final Takeaways Keep Running Toward God

SPEAKER_00 1:15:22

And he'll spread out across me, like, and he'll just like fall asleep. And it's over. And it's like, he's just like inviting you, like, yep, let's just rest a while. Just don't get up, don't move.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:35

Don't move. I'm comfortable, comfortable. Let's let's enjoy this.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:39

Yep. Oh man.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:44

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:45

Well. Yeah, any finishing pictures? Uh, I think I covered everything that uh that I was thinking about today. Trying to think if there was any final thoughts or things that we glanced over, but no, I knew this was gonna be just a a really thought-provoking episode. And that's what I wanted it to be. I wanted to use his example to get people to think a little more clearly about their salvation and the fact that let's not use Judas as an example to run wild. Let's not let's not try to have compassion for him so that perhaps we can have compassion for ourselves and maybe try to skid by and not quite take our own salvation so seriously. Quite the opposite. Like you need to look at his example and see that yes, even though prophecy put that fate upon him, and perhaps God was all-knowing that maybe you know you could he could just he sees far enough ahead, he knows what people are going to do. So it's not that Judas ever thought, well, this is my fate, so I gotta do it. You can see through scripture that Judas is being caught up by Satan himself to go down this road. And it starts, and it starts with these small sins of skimming off the top, and it and it's and it continues on with perhaps a disbelief of I'm not gonna go as far as to call him Savior and Lord until he commits the big mistake, which that's what Satan's looking to do in each and every single one of our lives, is I'm gonna, you know, he's gonna start out small and he's gonna feed you a little bit, a little more, a little more, a little more.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:47

That's always how that how that goes. And I appreciated the way you are talking about how he's an example of how, you know, you can be on the straight and narrow, you can be, you know, feel as though you're following Christ and and doing what you're supposed to be doing, and how the devil will take opportunities to slowly guide you away from what God would have you do. And and next thing you know, you are caught up doing things you didn't think you would do. And that's I feel like that's what happened with Judas, is that he was going along with him three years, whatever, and doing these subtle things on the side and it interfered with him seeing the savior, and and he wasn't able to recover. And we're in we're in that position daily where we think, I can't recover, I can't do I can't do this. I've been an addict for thirty years, I've been this, I've whatever it is.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:55

Yeah. Or I've said I've said for thirty years I don't believe.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:59

Yeah. I've been an you know an atheist, I've been an agnostic, whatever it is, and you think he can't use me now.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:07

He there's no way I can I've denied him how many times. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:10

And I'm still not sure. You know, I mean, even now when I'm talking about, I'm still not sure. So how's how is how can I come back from that?

SPEAKER_03 1:19:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:21

But you can. And because that's what that's why he did what he did.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:26

Sometimes I look at David's example as is as flawed as David was, he was always after God's own heart. Yep. Didn't matter how insignificant or flawed he was, he he still he had it in his heart. He wanted to, he wanted to follow the Lord. Like he was after his heart to keep pursuing it. And I always say myself, I'm like, in spite of myself, no matter how imperfect I see myself, I am going to continue to do the work of the Lord in any way that I can, in the way that I think the Lord is trying to lead me to do it. Even if I've messed up 10 times today and I admit every single one of those to the Lord, I'm never gonna say, I'm never gonna say, you know what, I've done too much, I need to quit. You know, like I'm not I'm not worthy of doing this. Because that's what Satan wants you to do. He wants you to say, like, he wants me to quit doing this podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:17

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:18

And so he could put ideas in your head like, oh, you're not, you're not worthy of doing that. Like you, you're not, you're not perfect enough, you're not this, you're not that. You're not reaching it. Give it up.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:26

You're not reaching anybody.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:27

Yeah, you're not reaching anybody anyway. You're insignificant. So that's what he wants, and that's what he wants for every single one of us. So it's that pursuit that we have to have every single day. In spite of ourselves, you got to find a way to serve the Lord and and do it with the whole heart and stay after it. Yep. Because that's that's a true part of your salvation, is just staying after it and just continue to give it up to the Lord and believe that you know all things are gonna work together for his good, not yours. Exactly. And if you continue to do his work, good things will come of it. Something good's gonna come out of it. And Satan can't, and that's the thing is Satan can't battle that. He'll go find somebody else. Yep, he will move the trouble. Yes, he will. He may he may he might kind of pop his head once in a while, but for the most part, yeah, he's you know, yeah. If he's got bigger fish to fry, he's you know, he's gonna do those things. So that I think that's the point that I wanted to get across in this episode. It's just because it, you know, I was I told you off off the air that we were talking about the blogs, and that question always comes up. Well, even before I read that blog, my wife Margie, she asked me what the episode was gonna be about, and this was yesterday. And I said, Well, we're gonna talk about Judas, you know, we're in our Easter, you know, episodes, and she says, Okay. And we started to talk about it a little bit, and my 14-year-old stepdaughter was listening to us, and she goes, Well, surely, you know, Judas didn't go to hell, he he went to heaven. And her heart is right where it's supposed to be, like thinking like God would have forgaven him for that because it was his fate and prophecy that he he should do this. He only did what you know fate called him to do. So surely, you know God wouldn't throw him into hell. So her heart's in the right place, but it's without that knowledge. And so sometimes I think it's great that she thinks that way that God is so forgiving. It's like she knows that in her heart how forgiving God is, and that's a great thing. But without biblical knowledge, without really looking into this, even though it's a great idea, it's not factual, it's not factual, and there's nothing to be learned from it. There is something to learn out of all that, and it does still hold relevance in our life today. And we always have we we we can be put in that same position at any time that he was put in. And even after you've been in them positions, and perhaps you didn't perform so well, perhaps you did the thing you didn't think you would do, but what's your choice gonna be? Run towards him or want run away from him?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:17

Try it again, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:18

And you have to make that choice. Are you gonna keep running towards him? As I think you know, David did, as he, you know, you kept you keep running towards him, or you decide like enough's enough, I'm not worthy, I'm gonna give up.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:35

And I I really think sometimes that that's difficult for people to to grasp that you can do that, that you can slip and fall and get back up and go to him. But he is he is a father, so when you do slip and fall, he's the first one that's gonna pick you up and and rub your knee and put band-aid on it and all of that. He's the only one that can that can bandage your soul. Because uh we we get confused about what we want to do and how we want to do it and all of these other things, and we don't always put God first, and then we've gotten into a situation we're not ready for. Yeah. And whether we admit that it was him, yeah, we're in a situation we did not allow God to prepare us for. Yeah. And whether we admit that it was him that got us out of it, it is him that got us out of it. Because he could have just let you get deeper and deeper and deeper, and he will let you fall as far away from him as it takes for you to realize he's the only answer. And it's a lot of people say, well, he's a gentleman, you know, he's not he's gonna he's not gonna force himself on you. Also, by the same token, he's also going to let you fall as far as you feel like falling, but he will always be there. His hand is always underneath you as long as you're ready to, you know, you get to that point and you're like, okay, I'm taking your hand. It's always there, it never moves. So, but it's always us that fall from him, not him that falls away from us. So and I think that Judas didn't didn't recognize that in Jesus, that Jesus was always next to him and that he could have he could have gone to him and said, I'm sorry, I know who you are, you are the savior. And then you could say, Well, he probably went to heaven.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:40

But he didn't do that because he didn't accept, like a lot of us don't, that that was an avenue for him.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:48

Yeah, it's possible that he could have betrayed him. Jesus could have still gone to the cross, done all that he had to do. Done all he had to do, but uh Judas still could have went to him in the end. So and at least yeah, yeah. And everything still would have been but he he chose another path.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:08

And that lets us know how how Satan can turn us and get us so confused that we don't think that that's that there's a way out, and we do the same thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:25

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:26

Yep. I think we're all right.

Closing Prayer

SPEAKER_00 1:26:28

I think that yes, I think that puts a bell on it right there. Absolutely. All right. Want to pray this out, Dale? Sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:44

Father God, thank you for allowing this topic to to come to us. I think it's very uh important that people understand their uh their path to you can be difficult, that there can be doubt, that there can be a lot of confusion. But we have to understand, Father God, that no matter how many mistakes we make, no matter what path we choose, that you're at the end of all those paths, and all we have to do is accept whatever sin we've committed. I thank you for my brother Nick. I pray that he has travelling mercy as we leave here. Thank you for all those people that are hearing what we have to say, that they may be blessed by what you are doing in their lives, and that if anything we say to them touches them, let them know, Father God, that it comes from you and not from us. Understand the meditation of God is always in rhythm with you, Father God. Thank you once again for allowing us to get together until our next point in time. We pray all these blessings in the name of your Son Jesus Christ. Amen.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:07

Amen.